Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:22 am

DukeCrockett93 wrote:
The passage “The Green Leaves of Summer” is for me the score’s most poignant...For me, the synergy of music and film imagery in this scene is transcendent and achieves an apotheosis.


After my first viewing of the film, I thought this was scene was the most haunting and really stayed with me after I'd finished watching it. It really helped elevate the entire film for me. The way Wayne let some of his shots linger on the faces of the men and the way the flames flickered on them, almost as if they were looking at the fiery hell they were about to encounter the next day. Their future/demise was already being reflecting on their faces. It kind of gives you goosebumps after repeated viewings. It also helps that the dialogue is almost non-existent, the facial expressions as well as the stillness of their bodies are the ones doing all the talking.

Wayne truly allowed his artistic team to convey that sequence. Clothier's cinematography, Tiomkin's music, Webster's lyrics, and those awesome faces of his cast and supporting players, young and old. It's right up there with the "Farewell to the Mountains" scene in Disney's Davy for heart.
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby DukeCrockett93 on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:48 am

Looks like I'll have to check it out, I haven't seen any of the live-action Disney films.
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:54 am



Variations on "La Follia Di Spagna" (The Leaves Of Spain) by composer Antonio Salieri (1750-1825).

Film Composer Dmitri Tiomkin (1894-1979) wrote the song "The Green Leaves Of Summer" for John
Wayne's 1960 film, THE ALAMO. As music historian Jerry Laing discovered, the influences from the
earlier work are clearly evident in the latter one. I have added images from the Waynamo, as well as
personal photos and memorabilia from the film and film set to flesh out the 17:57 piece. (London
Philharmonic)

I seem to recall how Jerry Laing had an article in The Alamo Journal regarding the Salieri/Tiomkin
connection. Does anyone remember the year of the article, or the issue #, for that matter?
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby John on Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:18 pm

Thank you so much for finding this wonderful piece of music and for taking the time to add your selection of photographs -- many of which I have never seen before.
What a great end to the week !
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:51 pm

John wrote:Thank you so much for finding this wonderful piece of music and for taking the time to add your selection of photographs --
many of which I have never seen before. What a great end to the week !

Pleased you enjoyed it, John!

I telephoned Jerry Laing himself today to get the word from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Jerry not only provided the Issue # for the Alamo Journal the article appears in, but a scan
of the article itself. Thanks, Jerry!

The Alamo Journal #63
Oct. 1988, pg 11-12
Attachments
LaFollia1.jpg
LaFollia1.jpg (207.81 KiB) Viewed 241 times
LaFollia2.jpg
LaFollia2.jpg (157.7 KiB) Viewed 241 times
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby AlamoJer on Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:03 am

Thanks for posting this, Ned. Yes, that appeared in the Oct '88 issue of The Alamo Journal. One year later, in the Oct '89 Issue #68, Ken Sutak (whatever happened to Ken?) penned a more lengthy article on "Dimitri Tiomkin's Alamo Score." In that article (pgs 4-5) Sutak says...
"Make no mistake: the theme [The green Leaves of Summer] is derived from 'the widespread use of the famous air La Folia.... I have the Corelli recording, and yet I never would have been able to identify 'La Folia' as the musicological source of 'The Green Leaves of Summer' had I not read Jerry Laing's inquiry in issue #63... and listened to Corelli's Violin Sonata in D Minor (La Folia) over and over again. Laing's discovery was based on Antonio Salieri's early nineteenth century 'La Folia de Espagne' incarnation rather than the earlier Corelli work, but this discovery allows a fuller understanding of Tiomkin's accomplishment."

Vindication!
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby SantaClaus on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:01 am

Ned, I enjoyed the video that you put with "La Follia Di Spagna". Jerry, thanks for the music lesson. After hearing that music, one would have to agree that it strongly influenced Tiomkin's "Green Leaves of Summer". I had not been aware of this influence nor had I even heard this music before now. Very interesting.
Of course, all movie composers from that era were well versed in the classics and borrowed more or less from their predecessors. We're all aware of the final part of the William Tell Overture being adopted as the theme music for the Lone Ranger. I always felt that Tiomkin's Santa Anna theme music, particularly during the final assault on the Alamo, was reminiscent an earlier part of the William Tell Overture during which composer Rossini builds and unleashes a "storm" with his music. Rossini's William Tell storm reminds me of Santa Anna's unstoppable storm of battle as composed by Tiomkin.
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby Rick on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:04 am

Ned, this is very cool and nicely put together. i'm curious what program you used to assemble the images and also how you applied the "old film" effect to some of them.

This is the first Salieri music I've ever heard, other than the parts they used in that Mozart movie. Portions of this piece also reminded me of Vivaldi's Four Seasons.
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Re: Dimitri Tiomkin's Film Score.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:11 am

And it doesn't stop! Carter Burwell's deliberately droning music cue for the Mexican soldiers sludging through the snow is reminiscent of Tiomkin's much more energetic and flamboyant music for the parallel scene in THE ALAMO '60 of the vast army "avalanching over mountain and plain." Carter also created a theme for THE ALAMO '04 that ultimately was not used in the score. I found it on his own Facebook page with other cues from the movie. It is reminiscent of Tiomkn's "Green Leaves of Summer," which is perhaps why they chose not to use it. It turned up last year in Carter's fine score for THE FINEST HOURS, a fine true story action-adventure-romance which is also graced with Michael Corenblith's powerful production design. Tiomkin also stole from himself frequently. We all know about his using the "Deguello" he actually composed for THE ALAMO in his months earlier score for RIO BRAVO. Another touch of music in RIO BRAVO that comes from an earlier film is the quiet guitar theme under the opening scene of the film when John Wayne extricates drunken Dean Martin from the saloon. This them was originally written by Tiomkin as the title theme for the western BLACK GOLD.

Nice video Ned.
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