Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Rick on Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:39 pm

NefariousNed wrote:"Seems like the answer to a prayer!" The scene where Crockett, Beekeeper and Smitty bring in the wagon of gunpowder.
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Look at that Texan with the top hat behind Ken Curtis. He looks like he walked out of "The Alamo (2004). Very out of place
amongst all those "cowboy" types.



Looks kinda like stuntman Jim Burk.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:02 am

Thanks, Rick. I wonder why he was one of the lucky ones to get a good costume? Some of the other Texan costumes
are downright embarrassing. Many of the extras look like they are wranglers from Happy's Ranch. Modern jeans, shirt,
cowboy hat, zipperfly pants with belt loops, boots. It also seems that Western Costume must've been rather shy on
coats, too. Though the weather in the film is supposed to be quite cold, most Texans sport just a shirt, or shirt with
cowboy vest, with neckerchief.

If they (costuming) went through the trouble of making the entire Mexican army look so good, why were the few Texan
defenders given just anything they could find off the rack?
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Rick on Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:51 pm

You're quite right -- lotsa Cowboy-lookin' folks in that film. I thought the uber-widebrimmed hat Wayne wore when fighting Sand's goons looked pretty silly, and I swear Widmark's hat in this one is the same hat he wore in other Westerns.

I keep thinking of the first month of filming when many actors and extras wore wool or leather duds, and doubtless sweated up a storm.

I liked Denver Pyle's hat best, and thought the buckskin coat Boone wore in his last scene looked cool.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:40 pm

If made-for-TV movies are an example (and they're probably not), hats are often the choice of that actor. (One of the reason's TV movies lack the art that theatrical features attempt.) On The Alamo: 13 Days to Glory, I saw the wardrobe person show James Arness a selection of hats -- all Matt Dillonesque -- and Arness selected the one with the broadest brim. After looking at his reflection in the windows of the bank building, he turned to me and said, "What do you think?" Of course, I answered, "Looks great!" :roll: Stars are, of necessity, very conscious of the screen image that has made them famous and have certain rules written into their contract to maintain that image. Arness' broad cowboy hat put him on the map, so he insisted. Likewise, Jason Patric insisted that he not have Bowie's long sideburns because his face had been so well established without them -- and that is indeed actor territory, not that of the makeup or wardrobe folks. With Billy Bob Thornton's Crockett, on-camera wardrobe tests during preproduction proved that Billy lost his excellent Crockett look as soon as his center-parted long hair was hidden, thus no coonskin, and he carried his other hat with him. On the other hand, Patrick Wilson was a newcomer to the movie screen and was playing a character who would have a giant character arc from a weak commander to the strongest one during the 138 minutes of the film, thus his hat (with a slight readjustment on his head) could look Buster Brown or gallant, depending on the scene. (This last observation is my own. I asked Dan Orlandi if he planned for that, and intimated that he did not.)
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:33 pm

Wayne and Widmark near the SW corner. Is that Pappy Ford standing by the cannon and "framing" a shot? He's got the hat and sunglasses.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:40 pm

It looks more like William Clothier to me. I don't think Ford could have got his leg up that high. :lol:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:26 am

I know it isn't Clothier. I can spot him a mile away, after having watched him work for ten weeks. And it doesn't look like Ford to me. I think Ron is right. Ford wasn't that athletic in 1959.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:15 am

Doesn't look like Clothier or Pappy to me either.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:58 pm

I don't know.....I pored over this section pretty good and even found Rich where you did NOT know Clothier in your own words :P I still think it's Clothier.
The hat fits, the shirt and pants fit other photos. Dare I say you two could be wrong? :shock:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:45 pm

John could be wrong. You could be wrong. I could not be wrong. It is NOT William H. Clothier. (But John is rarely wrong.)
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:34 pm

Okay...I'll go along until proven otherwise.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:08 pm

I should HOPE SO! :lol:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:38 am

I don't know who it is, but there's two things about him that should make it easy for someone to identify him. Find out which member of the crew had one very short leg and one very long leg, and that's your man. Oh, I blew the picture up as big as I could, and although he's out of focus, it looks like he has two black eyes. Must have been in a fight or something. (Yes, I'm kidding.)
I was wondering what scene they were working on. I know that ladder against the wall can be scene behind Bowie at night when he is distraught over the message about the "damn plaque". Wayne and Widmark seem to be in the right costumes for that scene. Or is this a photo taken around the time they're working on Lt. Finn's report about the big cannon? Seeing how there's not a lot of other actors around, I'm leaning toward their preparing for the night scene for Bowie's sombrero message. Anybody got any ideas on that? (No, I'm not kidding.)
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:02 am

SantaClaus wrote:...
I was wondering what scene they were working on. I know that ladder against the wall can be scene behind Bowie at night when he is distraught over the message about the "damn plaque". Wayne and Widmark seem to be in the right costumes for that scene. Or is this a photo taken around the time they're working on Lt. Finn's report about the big cannon? Seeing how there's not a lot of other actors around, I'm leaning toward their preparing for the night scene for Bowie's sombrero message. Anybody got any ideas on that? (No, I'm not kidding.)

To me, it loos like Bowie and Crockett are discussing going out to blow up that big cannon.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:35 am

Could be anything. That guy in the back is either crew or visitor -- not in costume. Thus the background is not set for shooting (with extras, props, etc.) and, without the background set-up, you can't really figure out what's going on. Costuming on the stars is what it was in many scenes.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:38 am

Notice how Wayne has his half-stock in the photo? That's the one he actually used during the battle scenes. The long rifle was just for close-ups.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby mrbassbone on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:33 am

IF this is one of Ashley's images, can't he enlarge the corner of it without losing the quality? THAT should answer the question.,,
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:46 pm

NefariousNed wrote:Notice how Wayne has his half-stock in the photo? That's the one he actually used during the battle scenes. The long rifle was just for close-ups.

That may be an important clue. They do look like they're discussing blowing up the cannon. You may be right about that. I'll look at that scene again, and see if the ladder if present and which rifle Crockett has when they have that discussion.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:40 pm

SantaClaus wrote:
NefariousNed wrote:Notice how Wayne has his half-stock in the photo? That's the one he actually used during the battle scenes. The long rifle was just for close-ups.

That may be an important clue. They do look like they're discussing blowing up the cannon. You may be right about that. I'll look at that scene again, and see if the ladder if present and which rifle Crockett has when they have that discussion.

After reviewing the tape, er, the DVD, I think that the still photographer snapped the shot of Crockett and Bowie right about or after when Travis shouts "Finn, you were ordered to report to me, not to hold lecture courses. Get up here!."
The movie is shot from an angle that is centered by the inside of the main gate, with Lt. Finn on the left, the Bee Keeper and 3 Texans behind him framed by the gate arch, with Crockett and Bowie on the right of the screen. Since the still photographer took his shot at an angle with the SW corner and west wall in the background, there would be no need for other actors or extras to be in place there, and whoever is standing with his foot on the SW corner cannon would not be seen in the movie.
Crockett and Bowie are in the proper costumes, Crockett has the same rifle and is holding his purse ( :lol: ) in the same way as in the photo where the strap forms a large hanging loop above his rifle which he is also holding barrel up and butt down.
Bowie in the movie at this moment has his left hand in his pocket with 2 fingers in and 2 fingers out, showing his wedding ring, the same way as in the B & W still photo. Bowie also has his cigar sticking out of his mouth. Everything matches that scene to that picture, just taken at 2 different angles.
In the still photo, you can see a ladder leaning against the right corner of the south gate-wall. It's interesting that in the movie, that ladder is not there at the beginning of the scene, and not yet there even that moment. After the large Mexican cannon blows up the Bee Keeper's keg, the ladder miraculously appears so that Denver Pyle and others can climb down from the south wall. Since scenes are not always shot in sequence, and that ladder area can't be seen in the movie, the ladder's presence in the still photo doesn't negate my determination of when the picture was taken. I'm guessing that the small barrel or keg on the ground near the door in the B & W is not only set dressing, but also a mark where background extras stand in parts of this "Big Cannon" scene.
Later, when Bowie and Crockett are discussing doing something about the cannon, Wayne and Widmark don't have their hands in the same positions as they do in the moment I described and as they have them in the still photo.
I know it's no big deal, but I'm obsessed by John Wayne's "The Alamo". Can't help it. :D
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:23 pm

He's wearing sunglasses and after blowing it up....I'm leaning back to my original thought. There's a photo of Clothier somewhere on this thread that looks an awful like him. I'm on the hunt...Be back in a week. :roll:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:27 pm

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:He's wearing sunglasses and after blowing it up....I'm leaning back to my original thought. There's a photo of Clothier somewhere on this thread that looks an awful like him. I'm on the hunt...Be back in a week. :roll:

If the guy has a red and white striped shirt on under that jacket, then that just might be Waldo behind those sun-glasses. Another possibility is that the guy is the school bus driver and he's there to ask where he's supposed to drive the bus so that it can't be seen in the movie. :lol:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:42 pm

After a couple of hours here I give up. I thought I found what I was looking for only to find out several pages and posts later it was discussed in detail as to who the people were. Can we post a picture of Clothier?
Isn't the Director of Cinematography like the caddy to a Director/golfer? He assists in setting the scene and advising....Am I on the right track? Does he not stay close to the Director?
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Rick on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 pm

Considering the man's attire, my guess is that he's John Ford's stunt double.
;)
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby SantaClaus on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:16 am

Rick wrote:Considering the man's attire, my guess is that he's John Ford's stunt double.
;)

Wished I'd thought of that. You could be right. Then again, it might be Clothier's stunt double.

The truth is that I've searched and searched through picture after picture, and I can't who it is or who it isn't, but there's been talk. :?
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby AlamoGill on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Hi once again

Ashley Ward has been in touch and sent six images he wants me to post
on the forum for him and he has also supplied a legend for each one so I
hope I have done this correctly but the images Ashley sent me are a lot
larger than you see below as Photobucket have downsized them all

Regards

Gill

Firstly here is a message from Ashley

My reasoning for offering up these images for posting is that I won't be in
San Antonio to share them in person this year and these large format
transparencies are all camera originals.


Gill thank you for your help in this matter it is greatly appreciated.

Ashley


This image is a frame enlargement from a strip of IMAX POF film in my collection.
Shot from atop Parson's Hill, it shows the soldados attacking the Eastern side of
the fort.

Image

This 4x5 transparency shows the set after production had ceased. It is approximately
January 1960.The cannons and other props had not yet been sold.

Image

This 4x5 transparency shows the soldados marching on the chapel as the defenders
prepare to fire their cannon. The defender with the raised linstock is Happy Shahan's
brother in law.

Image

This 4x5 transparency shows the final assault upon the chapel. Details of interest
include the TODD-AO camera at the bottom of the frame, and the red stock truck
behind the chapel. This image is often printed in reverse.

Image

This 4x5 transparency shows defenders manning the Low Barracks and Main Gate.
That is Jim Brewer with the canteen and Karl Flenn next to the gunnade.

Image

This 4x5 transparency shows a beautiful close-up of Linda Cristal. She had to wear
a heavy coat of makeup on her chest, to cover the freckles

Image
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:50 pm

Too bad. I like freckles.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:52 pm

Thanks, Gill, for posting these. And thanks to Ashley for making them available. Sorry he won't be in Bexar this year.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby cc nolen on Mon May 29, 2017 4:50 pm

The Guy on the right looks as if he saw all the Soldados and pooped in his pants!!! :o ... :lol:
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Tue May 30, 2017 1:27 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Too bad. I like freckles.


I like counting freckles. Slowly.
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Re: Behind The Scenes Photographs.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Wed May 31, 2017 6:27 pm

Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!
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