The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:00 pm

Note the barrel configuration. 1-2-1-2-1. The real nock volley gun was 2-3-2. Or, so some folks say.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby alamobill on Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:56 am

MUSTANG wrote:Note the barrel configuration. 1-2-1-2-1. The real nock volley gun was 2-3-2. Or, so some folks say.


I don't know, John. To me, it looks like a 2-3-2.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:09 am

Here's a scetch and photo
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:16 am

MUSTANG wrote:Note the barrel configuration. 1-2-1-2-1. The real nock volley gun was 2-3-2. Or, so some folks say.

Looks the same to me. Compare with the photo Nef posted and start with where the ramrod is -- same.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:43 am

The movie version also had a wire coming out the stock :lol: :lol: Joe
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:15 pm

I don't know. The ramrod in the drawing is clearly on the bottom. It seems to me that it's on the side of Widmark's gun. Unless he's holding it at an angle, which makes no sense. The butt of the stock should be square against his shoulder. Takes thinking on. :lol:
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:51 am

O.K. I see what you are saying. The barrels and ramrod relative to one another are the same in both, but the whole prop gun barrel assembly appears to be out of kilter and turned slightly counterclockwise as seen from the front.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:12 am

Exactly!
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby Seguin on Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:42 am

While at the Alamusso earlier this month, I had the pleasure of meeting gun and knife collector Al Frisch.
Seems that he had recently acquired a number of prop Mexican sabers from Western Costumes that had
been used in THE ALAMO and brought them to Joe's to hand out. Larry, Jerry, and I each got one. It's
just the sword handle and scabbard in one piece meant for officers in the deep background who would not
be drawing their weapons. Anyhow, very cool, and very cool of Al to be sharing them with us.


That´s pretty awesome having an item from the movie! It must have been your lucky day, Ned.
Recuerden El Alamo!
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:21 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Note the barrel configuration. 1-2-1-2-1. The real nock volley gun was 2-3-2. Or, so some folks say.



You were right John, the lock plate is mounted to the 2 barrels on the side, and the frizzen is mounted to the top
barrel making it a 1-2-1-2-1 you can see the difference in the frizzen. Location in the photos below Joe
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:47 am

Thanks for the confirmation, Joe. Now, I don't have to change the book! :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby cc nolen on Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:04 pm

You would have to really know what you was doing to load that gun. Too much powder charge in one barrel could mean quiet an explosion. Also, loading it under fire would be truly stressful.
Accuracy would be out the window... just as well load it with buck shot - point and fire. :o
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:16 pm

You would only put a small charge in each barrel, or risk breaking your arm, how would you know that every barrel fired, put the ram rod in and have it fire could make for a nice hat rack in your forehead Joe
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:26 am

Wow! Yes, I never thought of this stuff. And Widmark complained about how heavy it was and insisted on using the much lighter double in all scenes where you didn't see its detail up close.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby romanorifle on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:33 pm

rich,
you can tell that is the fake nock. the barrels are straight with no taper, and a lot bigger than the original. also the color's not right, there's no patina. a friend of mine fired one when he lived in Alabama back in the early 70's. the way the ignition works, the flash lights the first barrel, the blast from that flows to the next and so on, it goes off like a machine gun with a very high rate of fire, not all at once. the load would have been around 30- 40grs.1f pulvara. I was set up at the Baltimore gun show a few years ago, and that same nock was there for sale, the price was $25000.00. back in the 80's I called Stembridge gun rentals to see if they would take some photos of it for me. I was going to build one. the person I talked with said the gun still hangs over the front door and he would take it down and do so. I offered to send him the film to use take the pictures also; but he never did. stembridge gun rentals was auctioned off sometime around 1990, or some folks say. anybody know what happened to the nock? larry
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:34 pm

Hey, Larry! Great report. Thanks.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:36 pm

Richard Whitmarks mock nock was fired electronically Joe
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:05 am

That's right. Powder charge wired out the back to the special effects man's console where he throws a switch. The sound was probably a loud PUFFFF!
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby romanorifle on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:23 pm

rich,
that barrel band had something to do with the way it was electrically fired. seems to me I remember a photo of the nock with a wire going down one of the tubes, but I can't be sure. larry
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:52 pm

romanorifle wrote:rich,
that barrel band had something to do with the way it was electrically fired. seems to me I remember a photo of the nock with a wire going down one of the tubes, but I can't be sure. larry


Here you go.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:33 pm

One of the prop swords from gun & knife collector Al Frisch used in THE ALAMO that Larry Grimsley fetched along from California.
It's all one piece, both sword and scabbard.

Explanation in attached thread link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14&p=130840&hilit=frisch#p130840
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:39 pm

Wow! Is it metal or hard rubber? I'm guessing metal.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:44 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Wow! Is it metal or hard rubber? I'm guessing metal.

It is metal. You could throttle someone good with it.

For the purpose it was used, (probably officers in wide, or background shots, or mass cavalry never seen drawing a weapon)
rubber ones would've been safer. Plus a lot less heavy.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:04 pm

Now that's way cool!!! You don't happen to know if he has any more for sale, do you?
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:33 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Now that's way cool!!! You don't happen to know if he has any more for sale, do you?

He was kindly giving them away, John.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby Travis247 on Sun May 24, 2015 4:21 pm

Ned, Rich, anyone---

I know the film was not historically correct ("the sixth-sixth Vera Cruzado Fussiliers") but does anyone know what colr uniforms carried what battallion flags? I know one photo shows dragoons carrying the Matamoros Flag. I have these 1836
Mexican flag decals for my diorama and just want to try and match them up to the movie decor.Thanks.

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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Sun May 24, 2015 5:57 pm

Image
Matamoros. Looks like a red tunic.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Sun May 24, 2015 5:59 pm

Image
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Sun May 24, 2015 6:27 pm

From the Alamo De Parras site.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:19 pm

From a Reader's Digest 2013 commemorative magazine on John Wayne:
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby alamocentral on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:14 pm

I just dug out some photos from CIRCUS WORLD (1964), and John Smith wears Crockett's fringed buckskin jacket from Alamo. Bruce Cabot wears the same jacket in McLintock. Every time you see the jacket, it has fewer fringes left. I think there
were three of these at one time. Wayne gave one of them to Marshall Jones.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Here's a great shot showcasing the many different Mexican uniforms that were in THE ALAMO.

In the foreground, the khaki uniforms with gray britches and white shako cover.
Next line, the blue uniforms, with a mix of both white and gray britches in the same unit.
Line after that, the white infantry, white from head to toe, but with red sashes.
Then the "red cavalry", followed by red infantry with gray britches.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby Travis247 on Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:03 pm

NefariousNed wrote:Here's a great shot showcasing the many different Mexican uniforms that were in THE ALAMO.

In the foreground, the khaki uniforms with gray britches and white shako cover.
Next line, the blue uniforms, with a mix of both white and gray britches in the same unit.
Line after that, the white infantry, white from head to toe, but with red sashes.
Then the "red cavalry", followed by red infantry with gray britches.


Ned,
Awesome shot. Great for us diorama makers. Never realized that the khaki tunic uniforms were over grey britches. Always thought it was khaki over khaki or khaki over white pants. Thanks.

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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:35 am

Actually, according to the wardrobe plot, the only soldiers who were dressed in gray pants were:
Dragoons with red braid side seams,
Blue Lancers with red stripe and brass buttons, black cuffs
Gray Lancers with green side stripes, black cuffs
Red and Blue Infantry. However, Blue infantry also wore tan pants
White infantry wore white pants.
Artillery wore dark blue pants with red side stripe, and the Band members wore gray pants, with red stripe and brown leather cuff.

To answer your question regarding Tan and Ecru Infantry, some wore tan pants with red stripes, tan pants with red stripes edged in blue soutache, or just plain tan or white. But, there are many, many photos where the jackets and pants were mismatched. ie. Band members with green lancer pants, etc. In interviews with many extras, some said they just grabbed whatever was available and wore the combination. So, either the photos is a bit aged so that the pants look gray, or they may have been an accidental or deliberate mismatch. By the way, again, according to the wardrobe plot, the soldiers in the front rows should have been wearing a green sash and either sandals or going barefoot. LOL!
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:21 am

Red infantry, gray lancers and white infantry. Are those riders on the right of the photo band members/buglers?
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby MUSTANG on Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Yes, I believe so.
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby alamobill on Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:48 am

Also, on the left are the tan infantry (with straw hats) and in the deep background are the ecru infantry (with white shakos).
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby SantaClaus on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:47 am

NefariousNed wrote:Red infantry, gray lancers and white infantry. Are those riders on the right of the photo band members/buglers?

Is that a screen shot, or is it a production still from a different angle than we see in the movie, with troops set up in such a way that the gaps can't be seen and the number of troops would seem greater by movie allusion? That's kind of a run-on sentence, so I hope you get my meaning. :?:
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:26 am

Not a screen cap, Richard.

Lancers. Can't tell whether they are gray , or not. Photo too dark. Anyone?
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Re: The Movie Uniforms & Weapons.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:35 am

Red infantry at the finale, outside the west wall. Aissa and Joan have just past by.
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