The Film Set & Location.

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

Moderator: NefariousNed

The Film Set & Location.

Postby AlamoMo on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:18 pm

The Film Set & Location.

Image
Do This Mean What I Think It Do ??, " It Do "
User avatar
AlamoMo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:26 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Mid Wales UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:21 pm

Image
The Waynamo set, 1961, after John Ford's company had done some modifications for TWO RODE TOGETHER.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22 pm

Image
You can still see the original Al Ybarra designed outline bleeding through the plaster.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:23 pm

Image
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:24 pm

Image
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:12 am

Image
Pre-production shot of the set.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:13 am

Image
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:15 am

Image
Post-production shot of the Waynamo set.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:20 am

Image
The Waynamo, after the battle.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:42 am

The following pics are taken from the Huberman doc' which has been discussed on another thread, but some of these (and a lot of other great photo's) can also be found in John Farkis's fantastic book about Alamo Village.

I was fortunate enough to pick a copy up at the 2007 symposium signed by the great man himself (thanks John !) and if you want the definitive story on how the set was built and how the film came to be filmed in Bracketville, grab a copy of it you won't be disappointed.

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:43 am

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:45 am

The west wall under construction

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:47 am

Travis's quarters going up

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:50 am

Another view of the Travis HQ

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:53 am

Almost ready for Laurence Harvey to move in....

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:57 am

The church under construction. Telephone poles were used for structural stability. (that film set was built better than some modern day houses ?)

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:58 am

Thanks for the kind words, my friend. Looks like I need an agent. And wait till you read the follow up. A lot of great stories from the cast and crew.
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1936
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:59 am

Up it goes !

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:02 am

Hi John, just caught your post in between posts!! I can't wait..
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:03 am

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:05 am

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:06 am

Almost there!

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:08 am

"VOILÀ!"

Image
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:40 am

Isn't it kind of late over in Devon? What's the time difference between where you are and the colonies?
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1936
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:24 am

I think we are about 6 hours in front of Texas time John.
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:38 am

My admiration for Al Ybarra and his ingenious set continues to grow deeper as time passes, even though I was profoundly impressed and fell in love with it the first time I saw it. The more I perceive and learn about it the more there is to appreciate. To me, it's always been the biggest "star" of the film, and I'll be glad to share some insights and pictures of it here as time permits.

Most "imperfect" copies of the facade of the church only enhance the disconnect between them and the "magic" of the original, but somehow Ybarra's church, though clearly not a literal copy, achieves its own "magic" and uniqueness - qualities the real Alamo has in over-abundance that seem to be the result of some sort of "sacred geometry." After all these years I still don't know how he did it, because any "tweaking" of the elements and their relationships (messing with the "sacred geometry"), usually makes the "magic" go "pop," and disappear. At the risk of sounding too high-fallutin' about this, I think Ybarra's facade was, by intention or accident, so finely-balanced and complete a design through most of the film, that by the end of it, the damage and changes to it already wrecked the "sacred geometry" for me, and it never has had the same "look" and power since.

Nef posted an opaque watercolor of the facade I painted in the 70's and mentioned I did it to show that with not too much effort, the facade could have been restored to its film appearance at that time. I never did make the pitch to Happy, and I'm not sure he would have understood that a slight re-shaping of the "repaired" parapet over the center window could make any difference worth the effort. I think the underlying "magic" is still inherent in the remaining facade though, and could be "turned on" again if a fastidious attempt were made to reinstate the look and details of Ybarra's original design.

Image
Last edited by Chaska on Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Chaska
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:54 am

Right on, Chaska! You've said it all, man. That image that you just posted of the Waynamo chapel facade... it's calling out to me---as it does each and every time my gaze falls upon it. As it stands now, the old facade does not represent any phase of Alamo film history. The PRICE OF FREEDOM paint job and styrofoam upper niche bases are gone, leaving the facade to look kind of stubby and bloated looking. And those pieces of wood that yet remain in those upper niches make the chapel's face look a little sleepy. Ybarra indeed knew what he was doing when he left the upper windows open and the upper niches, base-less. Without bases, the longer upper niches sort of drew out the face of the chapel, giving it an altogether unique expression, while the open upper windows endowed the place with a certain grace. That lump of concrete that the BANDOLERO crew slapped up in haste to try and satisfy Happy remains both a disgrace and a distraction.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Davy on Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:53 am

Great image Chaska as usual! You never cease to delight & amaze! :D

Davy
In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where we can see them. Anonymous ..
User avatar
Davy
 
Posts: 6891
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Ft. Worth

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Reb_Al on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:37 pm

I too love that image. I have a copy on my wall just next to my computer I never get tired of looking at it.
Image
User avatar
Reb_Al
 
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: Tyne & Wear, England

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:06 pm

That is without doubt one of the best pictures of the Waynamo I've ever seen, does the original show the whole church or is it trimmed like on the web page ?
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:35 pm

Alamo John UK wrote:That is without doubt one of the best pictures of the Waynamo I've ever seen, does the original show the whole church or is it trimmed like on the web page ?

Curious how we're all seeing different 'versions' of the forum display. (My brother Rob says that he is unable to view any images.) The photo is untrimmed, John, and even includes part of the palisade. I myself am very un-saavy as to website set-up tools, so I can't help you there. While I do have a wide-screen monitor, I don't think that this has anything to do with it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or similar problems like my brother's, or Alamo John's?
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby alamobill on Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:44 pm

The combination of Al Ybarra's set and Dimitri Tiomkin's music score are hard to beat.
alamobill
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:58 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:43 am

Nefarious wrote:Right on, Chaska! You've said it all, man. That image that you just posted of the Waynamo chapel facade... it's calling out to me---as it does each and every time my gaze falls upon it. As it stands now, the old facade does not represent any phase of Alamo film history. The PRICE OF FREEDOM paint job and styrofoam upper niche bases are gone, leaving the facade to look kind of stubby and bloated looking. And those pieces of wood that yet remain in those upper niches make the chapel's face look a little sleepy. Ybarra indeed knew what he was doing when he left the upper windows open and the upper niches, base-less. Without bases, the longer upper niches sort of drew out the face of the chapel, giving it an altogether unique expression, while the open upper windows endowed the place with a certain grace. That lump of concrete that the BANDOLERO crew slapped up in haste to try and satisfy Happy remains both a disgrace and a distraction.


I couldn't agree with you two more. Hopefully, we can do what Happy lacked the imagination to do.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17822
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:50 am

Image

Hey guys, this photo looks like it was taken at the same time the one used for the front of the Tex Beneke album was. They usually snap a whole series from different angles. The cannon is pointed in the same direction, the sky looks basically the same and whatever that is lying along the convent yard wall is in the other picture too. It is indeed a great shot. And I think I can answer the question about does the original photo show the whole Alamo facade. It must. No photographer with an eye would compose the shot like that. Only website technology -- that has no regard for image.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17822
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:09 am

Chaska wrote:My admiration for Al Ybarra and his ingenious set continues to grow deeper as time passes, even though I was profoundly impressed and fell in love with it the first time I saw it. The more I perceive and learn about it the more there is to appreciate. To me, it's always been the biggest "star" of the film, and I'll be glad to share some insights and pictures of it here as time permits.

Most "imperfect" copies of the facade of the church only enhance the disconnect between them and the "magic" of the original, but somehow Ybarra's church, though clearly not a literal copy, achieves its own "magic" and uniqueness - qualities the real Alamo has in over-abundance that seem to be the result of some sort of "sacred geometry." After all these years I still don't know how he did it, because any "tweaking" of the elements and their relationships (messing with the "sacred geometry"), usually makes the "magic" go "pop," and disappear. At the risk of sounding too high-fallutin' about this, I think Ybarra's facade was, by intention or accident, so finely-balanced and complete a design through most of the film, that by the end of it, the damage and changes to it already wrecked the "sacred geometry" for me, and it never has had the same "look" and power since.

Nef posted an opaque watercolor of the facade I painted in the 70's and mentioned I did it to show that with not too much effort, the facade could have been restored to its film appearance at that time. I never did make the pitch to Happy, and I'm not sure he would have understood that a slight re-shaping of the "repaired" parapet over the center window could make any difference worth the effort. I think the underlying "magic" is still inherent in the remaining facade though, and could be "turned on" again if a fastidious attempt were made to reinstate the look and details of Ybarra's original design.

Image


Ybarra was a genius, I have little doubt. Also part of what's lacking is the weathering he added. The verticle streaking and the darkening at carefully selected points complete his compositional balance. Without that, there is a lacking. With the equal (real-life) blackening of all the stones, an undesirable uniformity has resulted. Simply cleaning the front would most likely achieve little. The aging and weathering must be restored -- in a way that it will stay. Also, Ybarra must have sprayed some thin plaster or something over the front before the weathering, because the "pile of rock" look isn't in the original images. You aren't as aware of the individual stones.

Ybarra must have *grown into* this image, because it is different in some significant detail from his first elevation drawing. I've noticed that he didn't exactly follow his village groundplan either. He altered building angles and placements. Most likely, this was for the camera lens and he couldn't *see* it until the sets began to take shape.

I was present when Michael Corenblith likewise made a revision in his plans. We were standing in the arch where Bowie and Travis were to do their apology scene just as his construction folks began to build the cannon position inside the main gate -- right in between us and the Alamo church. The height measurement of the palisaded side from Michael's plans would have blocked the camera's view of the church. He instructed his foreman to move his hand down and down until he said, "Right there." In filmmaking, camera angle rules.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17822
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:14 am

alamobill wrote:The combination of Al Ybarra's set and Dimitri Tiomkin's music score are hard to beat.


Yesssssss! Exactly right! This combination -- together with Clothier's lighting and compositions -- far outweighs the lousey script and often pedestrian directing. After a point, I just don't care what they are doing or saying as long as the rich image and lush score are working on me.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17822
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:16 am

Image
Rich, that "vertical streaking" you mention has been in every Alamo postcard and photograph since people began photographing the place.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 52765
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:40 am

Nefarious wrote:
Alamo John UK wrote:That is without doubt one of the best pictures of the Waynamo I've ever seen, does the original show the whole church or is it trimmed like on the web page ?

Curious how we're all seeing different 'versions' of the forum display. (My brother Rob says that he is unable to view any images.) The photo is untrimmed, John, and even includes part of the palisade. I myself am very un-saavy as to website set-up tools, so I can't help you there. While I do have a wide-screen monitor, I don't think that this has anything to do with it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or similar problems like my brother's, or Alamo John's?


Guys, I might have uploaded too-big a picture for the site's standards. I replaced the initial photo with one a little smaller, so see if it looks better to more of you now.

Below is the entire frame from which I extracted the sepia crop on page 3. As Rich pointed out, it's from the same strip the photo used for the cover of the Tex Beneke album came from.

Image
User avatar
Chaska
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:45 am

I think this is the photo chosen for the album. (By the way, my choice for best cut from the album: "OLD MEXICO" - Flaca's theme.)
Image
User avatar
Chaska
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:59 pm

Thanks for reposting the picture Chaska it came out in it's entirety and is quite stunning as is the second shot.

Thanks again.
User avatar
Alamo John UK
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: Tiverton, Devon. UK

Next

Return to The Alamo ( 1960 )

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest