The Film Set & Location.

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby cc nolen on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:44 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:You win the lottery, buy Alamo Village!

Can you make it look identical to how the real Alamo would have looked :?: .....if so, you're hired :D
Now all I have to do is hit the powerball, and it looks like we'll have ourselves a project......this will keep you out of trouble :roll:
Chris...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby cc nolen on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:47 pm

I have stayed at the Fort many times while hunting on the Pinto Creek just 7 miles west of Brackettville....and you are right!...it could use an overhaul as well....so be it! :lol:
Chris...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:52 am

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:Ft Clark Springs!!!!! While you're fixing up Alamo Village, you might as well fix up Ft Clark with all the lottery money and then produce Rich's script about Jim Bowie. See how easy it is to spend somebody else's money. :mrgreen:

Fargo, I owe you a beer.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby cc nolen on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:18 pm

We just have to win......... :D
At least we would already have a good contractor....who else but Rich Curilla.....we could all stay in the bar drinking beer, while Rich pointed and directed. :D
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:06 pm

He won't have time. He's gotta start watering those plants again.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:50 am

Good evening to all my anal friends. Wait a minute. I'm the anal one! Never mind. Here's a little tidbit some of you might find interesting. As large a production as The Alamo was, with so many extras, horses, etc. it isn't any wonder that some folks may have been injured. Scrapes, scratches, etc. Wayne had two two doctors and a mini-infirmary on hand at all times, complete with an ambulance. I had heard there were several broken bones among the stuntman, but to a man, they all indicated that wasn't the case. I even heard a rumor about a death on the set, but I believe someone may have been confused about the LaJean Ethridge situtation. On a hunch, I took it upon myself to review local hospital notices. Not only would the notices give the name of the individual as well as what hospital they were admitted to, but they also indicated if the individual was a local resident or if they were associated with Batjac. The following are names of Batjac affiliated individuals admitted to Del Rio Hospital during filming:

Tulisha Shahan
Roman Freulich, unit photographer for United Artists.
Albert Podaloski
Robert Reylea, perforated ulcer
Mrs. Marion Harper, perhaps the wife of Rolly Harper who cattered the set.
Mrs. Julia French
Frank Austin
Fidel Gonzales
Nick Toarilas

Now, you might say, "So what?" Well, grasshopper, here is the interesting part. I always thought filming wrapped up mid-December with all principles leaving by the 18th. Cliff Lyons stuck around for a week or so to wrap up second-unit activity, but even he left before Christmas. However, in a hospital notice dated January 8, 1960, Batjac employee Albert Polosky (Podaloski?) was admitted to Del Rio Hospital. I wonder what they were still doing on location at that time. Perhaps, tearing down, packing up? Rich? When I spoke with Rudy, Bob Relyea, etc. they all said nobody was there, for any reason, after Christmas. There were rumors the 2nd unit came back as late as January and this might be the first evidence of that. Or not. If anyone knows any of these individuals, other than the obvious, feel free to post. Gracias.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:57 am

Happy told me that there was photography after the holidays. I told you. I was the rumor, no doubt. :lol: I took this to mean what Hollywood calls "pick-up" shots. Stuff they still lacked when all the returns were in, or stuff the lab screwed up -- always possibilities. Can't say what it was or if. That's just what Happy said, and I'm sure he didn't know what it was for. I always guessed that maybe it was the footage at the palisade with Wayne and the Tennesseans firing but with the chapel window already burnt from the final blast, but I seem to remember you saying that was scheduled into the last days before Christmas.

Also, there no doubt was quite a clean-up period. Prop pick-up. Cannons carted away. Costumes.... etc. All this would have been hard to get done even within the month of January. So, yes, there would have been crew there. (Boy, the kid gets so excited when he finds a new detail! LOL)
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:59 pm

The Kid???!!!! Well, I guess I am significantly younger than you. :lol: And yes, I do get a bit wound up at times, but I try and restrain myself. Therefore, I suppose I shouldn't say that when the Batjac HQ at Ft. Clark caught on fire in 1959, they struggled a bit to put it out as the firetruck was out of gas and couldn't get near the blaze. They had to drag the hoses some distance. More useless trivia. Which is an oxymoron in itself.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:26 pm

Guys, guys, all this stuff belongs in a BOOK!
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:11 pm

I'm working on mine. 295 pages (excluding photos), 125,000 words and counting. About 70% finished so far. Don't know about Rich though. Rich??????
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:14 pm

You are so correct Ned!!!! If these guys would spend time writing this info down instead of being on line here, we could have a book in no time. Rumor has it, one of those guys doesn't have to water the flowers anymore. A chapter a day or week could be done????? How about it guys. Let's face it, we all are not as we once were and if you leave then you take all that info with you and then nobody will ever. Let the old men tell the story.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Doc on Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:28 pm

I'll drink to that, but then I'll drink to just about anything. More to the point, I'll buy three copies of the book - my son and brother are fans too. Don't forget the pictures.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:19 pm

No problem. I've got them laid out chapter by chapter. Oh Rich!!!
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:22 am

I have numerous projects in various stages of development. ;)
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:28 am

Aye, but is your book one of them?
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:56 pm

Way to go John. I'll buy a couple myself. That's five and you're not finished yet.
Okay Rich obviously you are engaged in various projects and I hope they work out. Maybe a book is one, maybe some future role in Alamo Village or even getting your script financed, possibly lectures on the film. A man has to stay busy and it sounds as if you are doing that. So my friend I for one just don't want all that head knowledge staying where it is.
Books are no easy thing to do as some of us know and it does take time. So I'll wait with eager anticipation for both books.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:18 am

RLC-GTT wrote:I have numerous projects in various stages of development. ;)

This comment was actually a suggestion of Indie Film Production guru Dove S-S Simmons for what one should say when he is out of work and money and somebody asks him what he is doing. Thus, I was actually just rehearsing the line. LOL

The book is still on the stove, just not on a front burner.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby cc nolen on Thu May 05, 2011 10:58 pm

Lite the stove...turn up the heat.....you're burning daylight..... :D
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby alamocentral on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:07 pm

Dear Rich,
What is the approximate distance between the maingate, and the closest building in town?
Thanks,
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:18 am

From the main gate (I assume you mean of the Alamo and not the main ranch gate) to the closest building (which is the back corner of the Parsons House next to the church) is 1,072 ft. On the 1959 set, it is 1,127 feet from church to church. And just for kicks, let me throw in two other measurements. Church to church on Michael Corenblith's set is 1,264 feet. Church to church (real Alamo - San Fernando Parish): 2,547 feet.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby alamocentral on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:33 am

Dear Friends,
Craig, the BW image of the chapel, which you first posted on page four (showing the bell and pull on the right when uncropped) is from a 4x5 BW negative shot by Lawrence Goldman. Ned...the one you posted several items further on, from the Beneke album cover, was also a 4x5 BW neg by Goldman. I have the original negs to both images...and they make wonderful BIG prints!
Best,
Ashley

Chaska wrote:
Guys, I might have uploaded too-big a picture for the site's standards. I replaced the initial photo with
one a little smaller, so see if it looks better to more of you now.

Below is the entire frame from which I extracted the sepia crop on page 3. As Rich pointed out, it's from
the same strip the photo used for the cover of the Tex Beneke album came from.

Image

Chaska wrote:I think this is the photo chosen for the album. (By the way, my choice for best cut from the album: "OLD MEXICO" - Flaca's theme.)
Image
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Rick on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:04 pm

John Farkis has polished his magnifying glass and, armed with some photos from Mo and Ashley, come up with the following anaylsis:


I've been following the ongoing discussion re: balcony/"Faux" window, and not wanting to beat a dead horse (that never stopped me in the past) I thought I would add my two cents. I think in order to determine where a specific scene was filmed, we need to take a look at two aspects: building architecture and camera placement.

Architecture:
The Hotel was a two-story building with multiple window/door opening on both levels (Photo #1). The upper level consisted of six openings: an unshuttered window on the far left and far right side of the building, with four shuttered openings in between. The first shuttered opening on the left was a doorway, the remaining three opening were windows. A second-story wooden balcony extended across the face of the Hotel, enclosing the doorway and three center windows, with three-foot-high (est.) front and side banisters/railings. The balcony was constructed of wood with floor boards running parallel to the face of the building. A 45-degree staircase ran from lower right section of the first floor to the upper left section of the second floor. The staircase opening on the second floor was also protected by a wooden banister/railing. The overall width of the balcony appeared to be about 10 to 12 feet. Other than the open doorway on the left side of the balcony, there was no other hallway, alcove or wall extending out from the right side of the balcony, wild or otherwise. None of the windows appear to have a barred grate except the one that Crockett looks into when Emil Sand and Flaca are arguing (Photos #2/2a). The interior of the building was not used to film any scene, either on the first floor or the second floor. All interior scenes in the building -- whether in the hallway, inside Flaca's room, or outside looking into the room -- were filmed at an off-site sound stage located in a Ft. Clark airplane hanger. Rich, correct me if I'm wrong but I think the first floor only had four openings: going from left to right, two grated windows, a doorway and another window.

Camera Placement:
There have been suggestions that the photo below (#3) was taken on the second-story balcony. I would imagine that the camera and lens height would have been in line to the height of Wayne's chest. Any higher and you would see the top of the brim of his hat; any lower and you could see underneath his brim. You can also see the underside of the eaves on the church roof. Granted, the church is much higher than the height of the Hotel but if this was taken on the second story of the hotel as has been stated, I would suggest that you would see more of the top of the chili stand and not so much underneath, and much more of the church roof. Given how close the church and chili stand are in the background, it seems to me that the window element was placed on the ground floor, either underneath the balcony or just out onto the street. The window element is also angled toward the church. If placed in the correct relationship to the building, that is, flat against the wall of the hotel, you would be looking straight out into the "plaza" across from the Hotel. The church would be extremely far on the right side of the frame, and barely visible. Remember, the church is farther up the road, closer to the blacksmith shop and cemetery, than to the Hotel. I did look at the other posting mentioning the relationship of the people to the buildings in the background but my thought is that we also need to look at how close the camera was to the objects in the foreground. Supposedly, this photo (#4) was to represent the same POV, just the next morning. Notice how you can't even see the church now but can see further up the street.

Does this make any sense? Man, I wish I could be down there to confirm this, maybe in October.

Scene De-construction:
As Sand and Flaca reach the top of the stairs they turn right and enter a doorway and short hall leading to Flaca's room. (Filmed at Ft. Clark.) All interior sequences filmed at Ft. Clark. During the sequence when Sand and Flaca argue, Wayne is standing on the balcony, lights a cigar, hears the argument and starts to walk left to right down the balcony. He stops and stares off-camera, directly to the right. In the next cut we see him look into her room window (#3). As discussed above, it is my opinion that the shot of Wayne looking into the room, taken from inside the "room," was filmed on ground level. Another shot of Wayne looking into the room, taken from the outside, was filmed at Ft. Clark (#2). The next morning, the shot of departing villagers was taken on Back Street (#5). Note the temporary ballister supports. Wayne standing on the Balcony as shot through the open window was filmed on the second floor (#4). Wayne resting his foot on the window sill was filmed at Ft. Clark (#6). Interesting, if you compare photos 2a and 6, both are supposed to represent the same view. But in #2a, there are only two flower pots to the left of the window; in #6 there are three. Landscaping elves?

Anyway, those are my thoughts, such as they are. So now I've beaten a dead horse, shot it, hanged it, and shot it again to make damn sure it's dead! Rich, respectfully, the ball is now in your court. LOL!




Photo #1
Image
Photo #2
Image
Photo #2a
Image
Photo #3
Image
Photo #4
Image
Photo #5
Image
Photo #6
Image
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:11 pm

Thanks, Rick. At least that's what I think. As to where various cuts were filmed, that's solid. The question is the location of the "faux" window. The more I look at it, the more I believe the shot of Wayne peering into Flaca's room was shot on ground level. Rich, you know camera dynamics better than any. I assume the closer the camera lens is to a subject, the closer the background appears and the larger the objects in the background appear as well. At least that's my working assumption.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:22 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Thanks, Rick. At least that's what I think. As to where various cuts were filmed, that's solid. The question is the location of the "faux" window. The more I look at it, the more I believe the shot of Wayne peering into Flaca's room was shot on ground level. Rich, you know camera dynamics better than any. I assume the closer the camera lens is to a subject, the closer the background appears and the larger the objects in the background appear as well. At least that's my working assumption.

Can't address all this at the moment in detail, but I do indeed disagree with the faux window ever being downstairs and see a miriad of visual miscalls. All I can do to back up what I am telling you (or eat crow) is to go out and take photos and I just don't have the time or the camera to do that at the moments. So......... ASAP.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:54 pm

No problem, just let me know where you believe I'm on the wrong track. Gracias.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:12 pm

MUSTANG wrote:No problem, just let me know where you believe I'm on the wrong track. Gracias.

Will do. Mostly it is the angle of view of the church and how you are perceiving the lens effect.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:16 pm

Rich, please PM me on the miscalls. Thanx.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:50 am

Photo #3
Image

Hope I pulled out the right photo and am not talking about the wrong one. There is no question in my mind that this shot is taken from exactly where the faux window was for the morning Flaca P.O.V. of Wayne out on the balcony. The camera is simply over further to the right and panned ever so slightly left to frame on the church. That straw umbrella is at least eight feet high in the middle with a bottom edge more than six feet off the ground and you are looking at a down angle at it. Look at its relationship to the sway-back church wall directly behind it. The camera sightline from the lens to the bottom of the umbrella (six feet off the ground) bisects the church wall approximately two feet off the ground -- that's a downward angle shot from a second story level. Everything else John said about the architecture and the locations is correct. (Wait a minute and I'll go check again. :lol: )
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:29 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Photo #3
Image

Hope I pulled out the right photo and am not talking about the wrong one. There is no question in my mind that this shot is taken from exactly where the faux window was for the morning Flaca P.O.V. of Wayne out on the balcony. The camera is simply over further to the right and panned ever so slightly left to frame on the church. That straw umbrella is at least eight feet high in the middle with a bottom edge more than six feet off the ground and you are looking at a down angle at it. Look at its relationship to the sway-back church wall directly behind it. The camera sightline from the lens to the bottom of the umbrella (six feet off the ground) bisects the church wall approximately two feet off the ground -- that's a downward angle shot from a second story level. Everything else John said about the architecture and the locations is correct. (Wait a minute and I'll go check again. :lol: )

The camera lens is at the standard "eye level" to the actor for this shot. Notice the linear perspective of the horizontal wood of the window frame. If the lens were at chest level as suggested, you would be looking up at that piece of wood, not down at it.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:00 am

Makes sense when you put it that way. Takes thinkin' on.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:35 pm

Nefarious wrote:Image
Here's Randy Odum's on the set photo of the Hotel San Antonio showing the false wall with window on the balcony. I believe Rich said
this was used for the scene where Crockett and Flaca meet in the morning where Crockett is on the balcony and Flaca is supposedly inside
her room.

Just adding this as a point of reference in case there are those of you who have never seen the phony window to Flaca's room.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:38 pm

Nefarious wrote:Image
He wasn't evesdropping. :roll:

Also, here's a close-up of Wayne at the window.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:52 pm

Something I mentioned to Rich some time back as food for thought. The real Alamo was around 90 years old when it was attacked.
The Waynamo set is over 50 years old and gaining.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby wconly on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:29 pm

Nefarious wrote:Something I mentioned to Rich some time back as food for thought. The real Alamo was around 90 years old when it was attacked.
The Waynamo set is over 50 years old and gaining.

Good point! Certainly makes one aware of the true need for repair when put into proper persepective. W>
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:42 am

Image

Those who visit the Alamo today can see where Al Ybarra got his idea for the Waynamo rear courtyard gate, as well as the height of the
courtyard walls.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:11 am

It's possible. ;)
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:59 pm

Here is Rich Curilla's overlay of the real Alamo's footprint on the Ybarra set.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby mrbassbone on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:11 pm

It is a better match up than Corinblithmo.

Nefarious wrote:Here is Rich Curilla's overlay of the real Alamo's footprint on the Ybarra set.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:07 am

Nefarious wrote:Here is Rich Curilla's overlay of the real Alamo's footprint on the Ybarra set.

It may look like I have misaligned my red lines with the set, but I had to line them up with the bottoms of the walls or where they would be since the new satellite view is at such an angle it must have been over Chris Nolen's house when the photo was taken. :lol: The front line for the real long barrack is right on the bottom of the Ybarrabarracks and I used true Alamo measurements to lay my other lines in relation to that one and the S.W. corner of the Long Barrack.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:17 am

mrbassbone wrote:It is a better match up than Corinblithmo.

In JLH's movie, there are only two shots in the whole movie that actually disturb me regarding the *controversial* set "cheat" that Michael made. One is the angle during Travis' speech that accentuates rather than avoids the lineup of the Long Barrack and the church. The other is one where you don't even see the buildings. When Billy turns around from the palisade during the battle and yells "Behind us!" and it cuts to his P.O.V. of Mexicans inside the north wall. He is in fact looking in the correct direction based on the set, but I know (what normal folks don't) that the real Crockett in that position would be looking right square into an 18 foot high wall, and it catches me off guard every time.
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