THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

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THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby AlamoJer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:38 am

This is not new information, but somehow it has managed to avoid the spotlight. So here it is again.

There are 2 - count em', 2 - sites that offer the roadshow (extended) version on 3 DVDs. The limitations are: 1) Neither of these is the TCM version that was aired on July 12, but that version had to have been the laser disc version, because that's all there is. And 2) neither of these is an HD or BluRay version, because no hi def version has never been produced.

That said, both of these online resources custom-transfer from the laser disc per your order. The movie is on the first 2 discs; "Spirit of the Alamo", Brian Huberman's documentary, and all the 'extras' are on the third disc. One resource sells it for $25, the other for $14.99. I cannot vouch for quality, as I have yet to order it myself, but when I do, I will order one from both resources (can't have too many!).

Several of our members have, at one time or another, made their own laser disc-to-DVD transfers. But one needs to have the correct audio equipment which most of us do not. It's my understanding that both these online resources offer a professional-looking packaged DVD set, which is one the things that appeals to me.

Many thanks to Alamo Society member Steeve Inagaki (CA) for reminding me of these resources. Here are the links:

Cinema John's Broadway and Classic TV DVDs
http://www.entertainmentoutpost.com/apps/webstore/products/show/7009533 (new website replaces previous one, now "frozen.")
$25.00

The Alamo, Special Edition, Original, Uncut, Letterboxed, Roadshow Version, DVD - 3 DVDs
http://stores.sumogorilla.com/products/the-alamo-special-edition-original-uncut-letterboxed-roadshow-version-dvd-3-dvds.html
$14.99
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:33 am

I am having my son order 2 copies, 1 from each site. It may be a disappointing gamble, however I will take the risk. The hard part is explaining the expense to Loretta. She recently bought me a pair of heavy steel frying pans/skillets, and I'd hate to get one across the noggin. :o
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby AlamoJer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:08 am

I assume that's why you had your son order it. You can play dumb, Richard. Blame it all on the kid!
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:49 pm

AlamoJer wrote:I assume that's why you had your son order it. You can play dumb, Richard. Blame it all on the kid!

Yep. I don't know nothin' about nothin' nohow. ;)
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:16 pm

The real challenge would be to try an convince Loretta that she bought it. "Don't you remember, dear?" (So......... then it's both frying pans, one from each side. Right?)
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby AlamoJer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:07 pm

The solution is simple, Richard: Ditch the frying pans! Think about it: Maybe there was an ulterior motive in buying them for you in the first place... other than sticking you with the cooking. Been there, done that.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:08 pm

The truth is that I am not afraid of Loretta clunking me with a skillet. She's too sweet to do something like that. I just dread the look she'll give me when she finds out about this. Every time she asks me how much money I've spent on something, I feel like Louis XVI waiting for the guillotine blade to drop. :o
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby AlamoJer on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:12 pm

If she's as sweet as you say, I wouldn't worry too much about the repercussions of a $15 or even $25 purchase.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:39 am

:D :D :D I now have my DVD from the site below
The Alamo, Special Edition, Original, Uncut, Letterboxed, Roadshow Version, DVD - 3 DVDs
http://stores.sumogorilla.com/products/ ... -dvds.html
$14.99
My wonderful son, Luke, had already bought it for me and had been waiting for the right occasion to give it to me. What a guy! :D As soon as he got my email asking him to make the straw purchases for me, he ordered the second more expensive one. Without telling me he had the $14.99 copy, he dropped by after work tonight and surprised me with it. I love that (31 year old) kid.
I'm happy that I now have the 3 hour 22 minute version on DVD. Now here's my report.
There's 3 Disks. Disk 1 has the first half of the movie, disk 2 has the second half, disk 3 has the full length documentary.
Each disk is in a separate envelope upon which is handwritten in small writing "Alamo 1", "Alamo 2", "Alamo Bonus". No writing or pictures on the disks.
The box is designed to hold 2 disks, so the 3 envelopes are stuffed in loosely.
The movie is in the old letterbox format designed for square TV's, so in order to watch it in the correct perspective on my wide screen, I had to settle for black bars on the left and right as well as the top and the bottom of the screen. On my TV, attempts to zoom only distort the picture.
The picture and color quality is about the same as on the VHS, meaning tolerable, but not as good as my DVD roadshow version. Luke used the TV remote to enhance the color by turning the color up quite a bit. I think we increased sharpness, too. Overall, the picture had the look of a movie that had been in theaters for a long long time. The crispness was long worn off. Sometimes it looked a little yellowish or gold. At other times it has that blue/purpleness such as when cannons billowed smoke. A couple of times the tint was distracting, such as the famous "Not thinkin'...Just rememberin'" moment, as the wall behind John Wayne and Denver Pyle looks like something left over from a Gay Pride celebration.
I equate the picture quality with what old movies looked like when shown on TV in the 1970's.
It also looks like every frame is cropped on all four sides, so 70mm Todd AO it ain't. That wasn't a surprise, just disappointed. I have never seen the Laser Disk.
The audio was fair. Again, like watching TV in the 1970's. I have a sound bar plus a woofer, not a fancy surround sound living room theater audio setup. My own hearing isn't so good, either. Luke made adjustments to the sound as best he could. Dialog was pretty clear, and the sound effects wasn't too bad. I was disappointed that the music wasn't very clear or audible. The music seemed muffled.

Despite its flaws, I'm very happy to have this roadshow version on DVD. It nowhere near compares to the quality that we saw in the theaters in 1960, and falls short of even matching the theatrical release version that most of us have on DVD. Like I said. It's more like watching a movie on TV in the 1970's.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:03 pm

:D As I sit here typing, I am watching disk 3 that has the "bonus" materials. As with the 2 movie disks, there was no menu page with "play" or "scenes" buttons. It just starts as soon as the disk is in. It was a pleasant surprise that it begins with a trailer (faded, of course) for the movie. While the trailer was on, I went ahead and switched my TV picture size to wide screen sizes, and was happy to see that I could increase the picture size to eliminate the left and right black bars and fill more of the wide screen with this great film and without distorting the image too much. So, it's very much like the VHS 2-tape set, but without the problems that inevitably come up with video tape and VCR's.
Not only is it the full length documentary, as opposed to the truncated version that I had seen, it now is easily accessible on its own disk.
Despite the faded color and somewhat muffled Tiomkin score, I'm still very happy to have this full length version of the film, and there's no TCM logo in the corner. :D
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:54 pm

Sorry if I'm making too many posts here, but I'm still excited about my new roadshow DVD edition. I've tinkered a little with the sound and may have improved the music. It's tough to be sure because I don't hear very well. Anybody know the sound of the the 17 year locusts? I've been hearing them for 10-20 years non-stop. I think I've snored myself deaf. My eyes aren't much better. Which reminds me of the picture quality. It's kind of like watching a movie while wearing slightly dirty glasses. I still love it. All that's missing is a group of Alamo friends to sit with and watch it.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:31 am

Well, it's good you have the 192 minute roadshow finally. It is very clear from your description however that this is a pirated dub probably several generations away from whatever they took it from. Perhaps the VHS directors cut release rerecorded with inferior equipment. The screen size you refer to is because this TV version was created before the TV screen standard was expanded from 525 lines of resolution to 1150, or whatever. It can't fill your screen left to right because the TV image is smaller (in modern jargon, it is fewer pixels) and that's all there is. When a movie is redone for 16x9 screens all the, it is (I guess) recorded from the master in the new technique for the larger TV screen. Shut me up! I'm in over my head. :lol:
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby AlamoJer on Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:25 am

Thanks for the critique, Richard. Mine $14.99 version is in the mail, so I'll get a chance to view it and see if my opinion agrees with yours.
I do plan to make disc labels for my copy(s). Haven't done it yet, but thinking about how they might look. The $25 version has blank (white) disk labels; I would prefer that they had been left off so I could affix my own... I don't know about sticking mine over existing ones -- might make the discs too thick for the DVD player.

I would be interested in reading your critique of the $25 version after you view it and make a comparison between the two versions.
Happy viewing.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:47 pm

I watched disc 1, so far, and I forgot at first to ramp up the color on my TV. The church basement scene, followed by the Flaca "bad eyes for curves" scene were both so color faded that they were practically in Black & White. My son said that laser disc "masters" only hold 60 minutes of material. Perhaps those scenes were near the end of the first 60 minutes and had something to do with it, or maybe it's just a co-inky-dinky. The next scene of Santa Anna's marching and galloping army had more color to it. It was then that I remembered to ramp up the color, which really does improve the picture. However, setting the color so high can create a few minor problems as well, such as the "gay pride" colors on the wall at night. I think that was the extra bright color pixels glowing in the darkness.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby DocWylie on Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:31 am

Interesting reading these comments. I have a 2-tape VHS "directors cut" and about 6 months ago took it to a local tape-to-DVD guy who ask no questions...he just copies whatever you bring him. It came our great! also just watched it in TCM and have it recorded on DVR. Nice to be able to scratch my Alamo itch with either/or.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:31 am

DocWylie wrote:Interesting reading these comments. I have a 2-tape VHS "directors cut" and about 6 months ago took it to a local tape-to-DVD guy who ask no questions...he just copies whatever you bring him. It came our great! also just watched it in TCM and have it recorded on DVR. Nice to be able to scratch my Alamo itch with either/or.

Scratching the "Alamo itch" is a good description, Doc. I'm still waiting for delivery of the more expensive $25 copy. Then, with two copies, I'll be able find my itch with both hands. :lol:
I changed back into pj's and fell into a deep sleep around noon today, waking up just after 2 p.m.. I was surprised to find Loretta out of her in-home office. Anxious to receive the $25 Alamo DVD, I asked Loretta if she would please check the mail and "Why aren't you in your office, are you on a break?" :?:
She said, "No, Dear, I won't check the mail, and no, I'm not on a break. Today is Sunday, Richard." :o Doh!
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:15 pm

The $25 Director's cut on DVD arrived today, and I'm watching it now. No doubt that it was made from the same "master" or laser discs as the $15 copy. The scene in the church basement followed by the "bad eye for curves" scene in Flaca's room, were very color faded in both copies.
I do think that the picture and sound are slightly better in the $25 copy. I can't be sure about the comparisons because I've made a lot of adjustments to my TV color, contrast, brightness and sharpness. I wish I could adjust my eyes.
So, I think the $25 copy is better than the $15 copy, but they are what they are. I'm happy. :D
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:13 pm

The difference between the reintroduced scenes from the road show version and all the other scenes from the general release version are because the 70 mm "Toronto" print from which the road show scenes were used was already color faded throughout. Tony Malanowski can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but, from what I understand, the video master for the "Restored Director's Cut" on LaserDisc and VHS was done by using ONLY the cut scenes from the 70 mm print. This 31 minutes worth of material was then video-edited into the already existing video master which had good color saturation. Thus the difference when a "restored" scene comes on. All full-length copies of the movie today are from this mixed-master. What I was hoping for with the TCM showing was that SOMEbody had finally created an enhanced version of the master, now that digital color correction et. al. make that more possible. But no, Turner simply ran what was already available. :( Remembering THE ALAMO seems to be relegated to our lunatic corps.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:23 pm

I was also assuming that this video master that has been in use for years has a much higher resolution than our old 520 line TV sets could present and thus could be presented on HDTV with a lot greater sharpness (1050 lines perhaps) than we have yet seen on any video format. This apparently is not so. Also, if this were the case, it would have only been visible on HDTV in an HDTV broadcast or on a BluRay disc. Recording it from the TV on a DVD reduces the 1050 lines of resolution back to 525. So, we still ain't got anywhere.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:44 pm

My $15.00 copy is here and I looked at the scenes that were at the end of the Laser disc before you had to turn it over. There is a black scene for each of them except for the Intermission on the 1st disc.
When I copied my laser I had a very smooth transition and you can't tell there was stoppage of the laser.
HOWEVER this copy is a shade better because we used the same elements but their copying ability id better.
I'll keep both and mark the discs as they are unmarked and place them in the duel case I have.
Hey, it's $15.00.....
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:33 am

RLC-GTT wrote:The difference between the reintroduced scenes from the road show version and all the other scenes from the general release version are because the 70 mm "Toronto" print from which the road show scenes were used was already color faded throughout. Tony Malanovsky can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but, from what I understand, the video master for the "Restored Director's Cut" on LaserDisc and VHS was done by using ONLY the cut scenes from the 70 mm print. This 31 minutes worth of material was then video-edited into the already existing video master which had good color saturation. Thus the difference when a "restored" scene comes on. All full-length copies of the movie today are from this mixed-master. What I was hoping for with the TCM showing was that SOMEbody had finally created an enhanced version of the master, now that digital color correction et. al. make that more possible. But no, Turner simply ran what was already available. :( Remembering THE ALAMO seems to be relegated to our lunatic corps.

I didn't see it on TCM because I don't have cable or dish, just an "as seen on TV" type of broadcast antenna, so I can't comment on how it looked on TCM.
Your theory of the restored scenes coming from the 70 mm print and being added to the already existing video master may be true, however the color saturation discrepancies that I see on these DVD's are not consistent with that theory. The entire church basement scene and restored "bad eye for curves" scene are extremely color faded, unlike any other restored scenes. I was guessing that these two back to back scenes might have been on the same reel of film and that it was a particularly faded reel. The birthday party color is more like the rest of the film, the nighttime arrival of the men from Gonzales looked comparable to the night scene of Bowie's message in the sombrero, and when Crockett is lanced and staggers out of sight and (restored) into sight, he didn't seem to lose color as if those frames were from another reel.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:57 am

Hmmmmmm. I dunno. You are right, it doesn't fit what I said. However, it isn't a theory that the missing scenes were the only part of the Toronto print that were used for the UA video release. That's a fact. I'm just not sure if my details of how this was done are correct. Short version is that the ONLY way we are really going to see anything better is if MGM/UA changes its attitude toward the movie and restores it -- if even just the kind of color restoration that can be done digitally now. Robert Harris has already written off on trying any further (after several decades) to get them to let him restore the film to 70 mm. It was possible to do the whole 192 minute movie from the original material and the Toronto print when he first started trying. But now, with all the setbacks and MGM/UA's total unwillingness to cooperate, it is not even possible anymore. Chemical change has taken place.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby DocWylie on Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:11 am

Frustrating for sure that the opportunity has been lost...but...we have what we have, and that's better than nothing.

I suppose...
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:28 pm

Image
One of the versions being offered for cheap online. (From Jerry's collection).
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:29 pm

Image
This one went for $50!
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:05 pm

Why would I trust a DVD (obviously unofficial) that had the key art squeezed at a 2:1 ration on the front cover? Obviously that don't care.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:30 pm

I didn't trust it, yet I bought both of them, one for $15 and the other for $25. I'm addicted to "The Alamo" and needed a fix, even if the drug wasn't pure. I needed it.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby DocWylie on Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:51 am

SantaClaus wrote:I didn't trust it, yet I bought both of them, one for $15 and the other for $25. I'm addicted to "The Alamo" and needed a fix, even if the drug wasn't pure. I needed it.
Richard McC


You're not alone, Richard. I've got a laser disc...but no way to watch it. A VHS set...but no way to watch it. Two ( count 'em) Two bootleg illegally copied-from-VHS DVD's..that I can watch...and I recorded the recent TCM telecast. If I could get my hands on a copy in some size of film I'd grab it. You cannot have too many copies whether you can watch them or not. It's just comforting to have them. :shock:
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directors cut dvd

Postby etheridge on Thu May 04, 2017 8:39 pm

i have just noticed online that there is a triple dvd of the original version of the Wayne film. It;s advertised by DVD Cafe ...Entertainment Outpost.
Has anyone purchased a copy.If so is it any good.
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Fri May 05, 2017 1:02 am

Here is what Etteridge is referring to. Don't know what to make of it. Could be a good copy, or another Asian version.

http://www.entertainmentoutpost.com/app ... ow/7009533
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Fri May 05, 2017 3:31 pm

TexianAtHeartII wrote:Here is what Etteridge is referring to. Don't know what to make of it. Could be a good copy, or another Asian version.

http://www.entertainmentoutpost.com/app ... ow/7009533

I went to the link, saw the picture of the cover and read the write-up.
The cover is very similar to the one that Ned shows (about 5 posts back). I have the one that Ned shows in his photo. It has the squeezed movie poster look on the front. What is different about the latest offering from the "entertainmentoutpost" link is that mine says "DELUXE LETTER-BOX EDITION" at the top, as opposed to this new one which says "WIDE SCREEN EDITION" at the top. In the top right hand corner of the cover, mine has a hard to read gold tag that says "DOLBY SURROUND AC-3 DIGITAL" RIGHT ABOVE "THE MISSION THAT BECAME A FORTRESS..." which you can also see in Ned's photo.
The write-up at the website for this latest "WIDE SCREEN EDITION" is identical to what is printed on the back cover of my "DELUXE LETTER-BOX EDITION".
"MGM/UA finally got around to issuing a special edition of "The Alamo" with all of that cut footage restored, but the sound was still not epic at home as it was in first-run theaters- until it was issued in this special box set edition with AC-3 Dolby Digital Sound. At last, viewers at home with modern home theaters could see and hear the majesty of what the camera saw and how composer Dimitri Tiomkin made it all the more exciting. Produced in limited quantity, and very hard to find in good condition today, this AC-3 edition is the one to fight for, if you love this film like we do.
It was recently announced that any plans for a restored Blu-ray disc edition have been shelved due to deterioration in available materials. So, this version will remain the reference version on video for the indefinite future.
"

So, I don't know if this advertised WIDE SCREEN EDITION" is identical to the "DELUXE LETTER-BOX EDITION" that I already have, but the boxes and the descriptions are nearly identical. It's likely that one "The Alamo" disc producer after another is cutting and pasting each other's write-ups and descriptions. It's impossible to tell what's pirated, and I don't take at face value any of their claims about sound or picture.
I now have 2 different set of road-show "The Alamo" DVD's, the road-show VHS tape, and even the laser disc set that I got for Christmas (still unopened because I don't have a laser disc player).
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri May 05, 2017 10:53 pm

WIDE SCREEN EDITION is modern terminology. DELUX LETTER-BOX EDITION is how they first referred to presenting widescreen movies on 3x4 TV screens. I am relatively sure that WIDE SCREEN EDITION is simply the best way today to say the same thing. The other way might not be understood by young buyers.

Assuming it is still a dub from the Laser Disc and not a remastered version of the original film materials, the visual limitations (today, in our HDTV world) will still be there. It is however possible to present the 6-channel stereo soundtrack better than it was on the Laser Disc, and that would be a plus. Actually, all of it would be a plus over the current and relentless DVD version, for which all the battle scenes were recut and chewed up. The Laser Disc version is directly from the 35 mm master which was still in good shape and hadn't been altered several times -- I think. I cannot address if it is any different from the previous one you have. Buy it and report back. ;)
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Re: THE ALAMO director's cut available on DVD

Postby SantaClaus on Sat May 06, 2017 2:37 am

I heard that Alamo Plaza planner George Skarmeas has produced his own DVD of "The Alamo" roadshow. Instead or restoring cut scenes, he has replaced them with several minutes of blank film. He also includes a documentary about the creation of his plans for Alamo Plaza based upon his book, "Not Thinking, Just Reimagining". The multi-disc set comes in a structural glass box. :lol:
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