The Alamo 1960 on Television

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Davy on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:14 am

ScottG wrote:I remember that first showing on NBC. In those days, without VCRs and cable, showing feature films on the three networks was still a big part of their programming. I clearly remember about a month before the showing, in August, watching an NBC preview show for their fall programming. One segment highlighted the feature films that would be shown that season. I don't know who was doing the narration but I 'bout fell off my chair when I saw a the clip of the Mexican artillary line firing to open the Final Assault and I hear "John Wayne and Richard Widmark hold down the fort at "The Alamo" , then cut to Duke firing at the pallisade. The three or four weeks between the preview and the showing were hell to live through in anticpation!


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I still get shivers listening to the score starting the film ... back when we had the first Waynamo Filmfest showing of the film in the Waynamo compound in 2004 .. I was sitting front and center on the bleachers ... first row ... I still swear that the Duke was sitting there beside me watching that film (I got goose bumps for real that nite) ... the haints were out that nite I guaran-damn-tee you! I will never forget it! :D Shinin times ... indeed! Long live the Waynamo Film & Alamo Village!

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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Seguin on Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:03 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Sort of like my seeing Spirit of the Alamo on TV on November 14 and then still having to wait until after new years to see the movie when it would finally hit the general release in 35 mm. We couldn't go to Philadelphia to see it in Todd-AO. Longest two or three months in Curillian history. Also the two or three weeks that I already had the soundtrack album but no stereo to play it on and had to wait until Christmas -- EVEN THOUGH I KNEW THE PORTABLE STEREO WAS RIGHT UNDER MY BED!!! ;)


No stereo to play the album on till Christmas? Now, that amounts to child abuse and torture! :D
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"The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby marklemon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:33 pm

I just heard that The Alamo will be presented on the Military Channel's "An Officer and A Movie" next Saturday night at 8/7c.....should be interesting to hear the commentary.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:41 pm

Ha! That's wild! Do you have the satellite channel number (or whatever it is these days)? For the commentary, I would love to check it out. Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:44 pm

...and the description thumb-nail says: "Joining host Lou Diamond Phillips is Four-Star General Barry McCaffrey to discuss his take on John Wayne's 1960 movie, ?The Alamo.'"
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby marklemon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:45 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Ha! That's wild! Do you have the satellite channel number (or whatever it is these days)? For the commentary, I would love to check it out. Thanks for the heads up.


Rich, I have Dish Network, and for me, it's channel 195, but it probably changes from region to region...not sure.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:48 pm

marklemon wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:Ha! That's wild! Do you have the satellite channel number (or whatever it is these days)? For the commentary, I would love to check it out. Thanks for the heads up.


Rich, I have Dish Network, and for me, it's channel 195, but it probably changes from region to region...not sure.

Thanks. I see the listing. I'll catch it on my friends' dish. With a program time (on their listing) of 180 minutes, it is the 161 minute cut plus commercials and commentary.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Strange. You'd think they would be running The Great Locomotive Chase or Buster Keaton's The General, since this Thursday is the 150th. anniversary of the event. :roll: I do see that The Southern Heritage Museum has some things planned in Kennesaw -- including a Camp McDonald living history day. In lieu of being able to get the General out of mothballs like they did for the Centennial, I guess that's something anyway.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby marklemon on Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:58 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Strange. You'd think they would be running The Great Locomotive Chase or Buster Keaton's The General, since this Thursday is the 150th. anniversary of the event. :roll: I do see that The Southern Heritage Museum has some things planned in Kennesaw -- including a Camp McDonald living history day. In lieu of being able to get the General out of mothballs like they did for the Centennial, I guess that's something anyway.


Listen, I'm surprised they're even doing that. What with rampant political correctness BS everywhere, this area (Acworth, Kennesaw, Marietta) is doing virtually NOTHING to commemorate the War's Sesquecentennial. Too many sensitive feelings out there might get bruised. :x
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:06 pm

Yaaaah, these folks just never grew up on TV and movies in the fifties and sixties. I'm sure Pennsylvania's the same by now.
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Re: "The ALAMO (1960) Airing on the Military Channel

Postby wconly on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:37 pm

marklemon wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:Strange. You'd think they would be running The Great Locomotive Chase or Buster Keaton's The General, since this Thursday is the 150th. anniversary of the event. :roll: I do see that The Southern Heritage Museum has some things planned in Kennesaw -- including a Camp McDonald living history day. In lieu of being able to get the General out of mothballs like they did for the Centennial, I guess that's something anyway.


Listen, I'm surprised they're even doing that. What with rampant political correctness BS everywhere, this area (Acworth, Kennesaw, Marietta) is doing virtually NOTHING to commemorate the War's Sesquecentennial. Too many sensitive feelings out there might get bruised. :x


Is this not the truth? You know, if some of these so & so's had their way, I am afraid that history would be outlawed, banned, burnt at the stake, whatever it would take to make certain it 'went the way they (whom are so correct)' want it to appear! Sorry for the soapbox here, but it just burns my hide! W>
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MUSTANG on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:23 am

Channel 112 on our Xfinity cable system. Looking forward to it.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby AlamoMo on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:21 pm

" Well Ain't You The Lucky Ones " :( :( :roll:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MUSTANG on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:20 am

Well, it was shown on the Military Channel tonight; once at 8:00 p.m. and once at 11:00 p.m. Just another reason to watch it again. At first I was excited as it appeared to be in widescreen, even though the shortened version. At least the opening scene of Houston riding into San Antonio was in widescreen. But that lasted only one scene. After that, action/activity on either side of the screen was cut off. Very disturbing hearing voices but not being able to see the actors. Good thing most of us had seen the film a time or two before. Lou Diamond Phillips and Four star General Barry McCaffrey, Retired, provided commentary during the breaks.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MUSTANG on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:44 am

I guess I should have expected this but huge chunks of the film are being omitted. Immediately after Travis speaks with Seguin and Bowie calls him a damn fool, the movie cuts to Parson and the boy. I should have realized this when, during the opening credits, various stanzas of music was missing. How do you expect to fit even a shortened version in three hours when you have commentary, commericals. etc. The first commerical starts after Bowie talks with Jethro and "Houston come and gone." Second commerical after "You're a damn fool.'" The third commerical starts after Crockett and Travis concluded their coversation in the back room. The entire table-top dance was omitted. Wow, this is going to be tough to watch. And did you know that 1,500,000 hand-made adobe bricks were made to construct the set "outside of San Antonio."
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MUSTANG on Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:13 am

I can't believe it. The last commerical started just after Crockett told Parson to round up some men, all sober, as they were going to church. After the commerical, the next scene was runaway horses and caissons crossing a creek. They eliminated the entire church basement, death of Emil Sand, Crockett visiting Flaca later that evening, next morning "first lie you've told today" sequence. I can't watch this anymore.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:42 am

I couldn't be happier that I didn't even try. I wouldn't have made it past the first commercial. Wait! No! I would have turned it off the second it went to pan-and-scan. Fiddling with my computer which has been infected with Malware and we're trying to save it. I can still do e-mail -- and get on here -- through a sort-of back door. But my files are hiden.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby wconly on Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:38 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:I couldn't be happier that I didn't even try. I wouldn't have made it past the first commercial. Wait! No! I would have turned it off the second it went to pan-and-scan. Fiddling with my computer which has been infected with Malware and we're trying to save it. I can still do e-mail -- and get on here -- through a sort-of back door. But my files are hiden.

Sorry to hear this news. That is what happened to my last computer. I had it repaired three or four different times, but the damage was becoming (ever so slowly) so extensive that what ever hit it, finally ate my hard drive :shock: ! I finally decided that after spending so much on repairs that I had actually purchased the stupid thing three times (there were so other service issues too), so I bit the bullet and had to buy another unit. W>
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Davy on Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:15 pm

wconly wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:I couldn't be happier that I didn't even try. I wouldn't have made it past the first commercial. Wait! No! I would have turned it off the second it went to pan-and-scan. Fiddling with my computer which has been infected with Malware and we're trying to save it. I can still do e-mail -- and get on here -- through a sort-of back door. But my files are hiden.

Sorry to hear this news. That is what happened to my last computer. I had it repaired three or four different times, but the damage was becoming (ever so slowly) so extensive that what ever hit it, finally ate my hard drive :shock: ! I finally decided that after spending so much on repairs that I had actually purchased the stupid thing three times (there were so other service issues too), so I bit the bullet and had to buy another unit. W>


Good Billiam .. will you buy me a new one too? :lol:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby wconly on Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:34 pm

Davy wrote:Good Billiam .. will you buy me a new one too? :lol:

Right :roll: ! W>
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby gh1836 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:08 pm

Talking about the bad editing of the movie for television reminds me of working at KAMR TV in Amarillo Texas in the early 1980's on Master Control. It was the Christmas Season and the station was airing "MASH " reruns on 16mm film. They would tell me how much airtime they had sold for the Mash slot and I would have to watch an episode to decide what scenes could be cut and then I would physically cut scenes or shots from the print to give them the time they needed for the commercials. I would try to pick parts that weren't necessary for the story line to flow. I don't mean to brag but I guess I did a good job disguising the editing for we never received a complaint from the viewing public and the MASH reruns were very popular then. After airing I would place the scenes back into the print. Probably the general public doesn't notice these scenes from the Alamo being missing. It's just that we know our movie so well.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MartyB on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:53 pm

gh1836 wrote:Talking about the bad editing of the movie for television reminds me of working at KAMR TV in Amarillo Texas in the early 1980's on Master Control. It was the Christmas Season and the station was airing "MASH " reruns on 16mm film. They would tell me how much airtime they had sold for the Mash slot and I would have to watch an episode to decide what scenes could be cut and then I would physically cut scenes or shots from the print to give them the time they needed for the commercials. I would try to pick parts that weren't necessary for the story line to flow. I don't mean to brag but I guess I did a good job disguising the editing for we never received a complaint from the viewing public and the MASH reruns were very popular then. After airing I would place the scenes back into the print. Probably the general public doesn't notice these scenes from the Alamo being missing. It's just that we know our movie so well.


I was Multimedia Supervisor at Keesler AFB for 18 years and my video/film unit was constantly having to edit material for the Base Channel and for training packages requiring set presentation times.

Now why this is sometimes necessary, as an artist I believe that movies and television programs are pieces of art and the director and editors have an artistic vision for their product (one reason I'm a huge fan of 'letterbox') and to tamper with them is a desecration. Wayne in his movie "The Alamo" had a vision...it has constantly been corrupted over the years with 'judicious' editing. That it still holds up after the butchery is a testament to just how good Wayne and company were...

As an example let's look a Fred Ray's drawing of "The Fall of the Alamo" in an edited version and then as originally done....you will see my point...
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby wconly on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:57 am

MartyB wrote:
gh1836 wrote:Talking about the bad editing of the movie for television reminds me of working at KAMR TV in Amarillo Texas in the early 1980's on Master Control. It was the Christmas Season and the station was airing "MASH " reruns on 16mm film. They would tell me how much airtime they had sold for the Mash slot and I would have to watch an episode to decide what scenes could be cut and then I would physically cut scenes or shots from the print to give them the time they needed for the commercials. I would try to pick parts that weren't necessary for the story line to flow. I don't mean to brag but I guess I did a good job disguising the editing for we never received a complaint from the viewing public and the MASH reruns were very popular then. After airing I would place the scenes back into the print. Probably the general public doesn't notice these scenes from the Alamo being missing. It's just that we know our movie so well.


I was Multimedia Supervisor at Keesler AFB for 18 years and my video/film unit was constantly having to edit material for the Base Channel and for training packages requiring set presentation times.

Now why this is sometimes necessary, as an artist I believe that movies and television programs are pieces of art and the director and editors have an artistic vision for their product (one reason I'm a huge fan of 'letterbox') and to tamper with them is a desecration. Wayne in his movie "The Alamo" had a vision...it has constantly been corrupted over the years with 'judicious' editing. That it still holds up after the butchery is a testament to just how good Wayne and company were...

As an example let's look a Fred Ray's drawing of "The Fall of the Alamo" in an edited version and then as originally done....you will see my point...

Clear as a bell ;) ! W>
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:24 am

All the ways TV has found to adulterate a work of film art! Cutting scenes and whole sequences out for time slots and commercial needs. Cropping and/or pan-and-scan to make a 2.20 to 1 aspect ratio fit a 1.33 to 1 shaped TV screen. And one of the subtle moves: compressing the audio track because the show would be watched in a home rather than in a theater. A large part of why The Alamo is so powerful a film is due to the wonderfully mixed soundtrack. The only Academy Award it won was for "sound recording."

The concept for what TV has always done with sound (compression) is explained quite simply -- and accurately -- by saying that they increase low volume and decrease high volume. The plan was best described in the sixties by some article that I read which said it was made "so that the soundtrack could be heard over the clatter of dishes in the kitchen and still not wake up the baby in the nursery."

One disasterous result in TV versions of The Alamo is during the drum march before the battle. In the theater (and I think on the DVD too), the drums begin quietly but increase in volume ever two measures of music. Then, when the picture cuts from Crockett's men listening to the shot of the Mexicans marching in close-up, the drums just bowl you out of your seat -- very powerful in the theater. But on the TV prints, that was all equalized and lost all its punch.

And worse, when there is practically no sound in the track (deliberately, by the filmmakers), the ambient sound level raises in volume so much that it sounds like a hurricane is in process.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:55 am

Before home theater and surround sound, many people watching the film on television could not hear the shot that felled Ken
(Captain Dickinson) Curtis.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby gh1836 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:50 pm

Yeah I particularly remember seeing the film for the third time in my life on the TV premiere. I remembered the shot where the cannon was fired from the barricade in the movie re-release back in '67 and you see the effect on on the Mexican soldiers. If it had been the first time I had seen the movie you would have thought they had missed. That 4:3 aspect ratio had taken out most of the effect of that shot. I too am a big fan of letterboxing. Still I was sure glad to see the movie on TV when it was released. Many of my friends who had never seen the film before it came out on TV thought that it was a very good film even with its formatting and sound faults which they didn't notice.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby cc nolen on Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:37 pm

Just found out Encore Westerns is showing The Alamo at 7 Central :D ...OK, now please keep posting :D this is good stuff!
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Losoya1836 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:02 pm

Does anyon know where i can get the John Wayne's "The Alamo" 1960, in stores? Please tell me! I really want the movie! I have a collection but John Waynes movie is being left out, so far i got Davy Crockett's King of the wild frontier and The Alamo 2004 film!

HELP! :shock: :oops: :o
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Davy on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:43 pm

Losoya1836 wrote:Does anyon know where i can get the John Wayne's "The Alamo" 1960, in stores? Please tell me! I really want the movie! I have a collection but John Waynes movie is being left out, so far i got Davy Crockett's King of the wild frontier and The Alamo 2004 film!

HELP! :shock: :oops: :o


Losoya you should be able to find the Wayne Alamo film at any Walmart in the bargain bin probably ... :o

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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Losoya1836 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:45 pm

Davy wrote:
Losoya1836 wrote:Does anyon know where i can get the John Wayne's "The Alamo" 1960, in stores? Please tell me! I really want the movie! I have a collection but John Waynes movie is being left out, so far i got Davy Crockett's King of the wild frontier and The Alamo 2004 film!

HELP! :shock: :oops: :o


Losoya you should be able to find the Wayne Alamo film at any Walmart in the bargain bin probably ... :o

Davy


Okay !! Thanks Davy! Take care!
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:58 pm

Wayne's Alamo has also been available bi-packed with another movie -- I think The Magnificent 7. I don't know if the documentary is on that one. Losoya, hopefully your Alamo '04 copy is WIDESCREEN and not Full Screen. The Full Screen version is just terrible -- can't see anything or anybody with only half the pictures width. If yours is Full Screen, burn it and get a WIDESCREEN copy. ;)
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby MartyB on Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:49 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Wayne's Alamo has also been available bi-packed with another movie -- I think The Magnificent 7. I don't know if the documentary is on that one. Losoya, hopefully your Alamo '04 copy is WIDESCREEN and not Full Screen. The Full Screen version is just terrible -- can't see anything or anybody with only half the pictures width. If yours is Full Screen, burn it and get a WIDESCREEN copy. ;)


This is what's available at Wal Mart...They are either 5 or 7 bucks...

Like Rich says...get the WIDESCREEN versions of any movies you buy or you will be missing half of the artistic vision and cognizant intent of the film...
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Losoya1836 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:05 pm

MartyB wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:Wayne's Alamo has also been available bi-packed with another movie -- I think The Magnificent 7. I don't know if the documentary is on that one. Losoya, hopefully your Alamo '04 copy is WIDESCREEN and not Full Screen. The Full Screen version is just terrible -- can't see anything or anybody with only half the pictures width. If yours is Full Screen, burn it and get a WIDESCREEN copy. ;)


This is what's available at Wal Mart...They are either 5 or 7 bucks...

Like Rich says...get the WIDESCREEN versions of any movies you buy or you will be missing half of the artistic vision and cognizant intent of the film...


Okay Marty! And thanks rich! I will agree to get the John Wayne WIDESCREEN Version .. i never noticed that fullscreen was a bad view! Now i will know aheadof time next time i want to get a FULLSCREEN Movie .. the Alamo 2004 film i got is a widescreen and im proud for that lol! :lol:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:26 am

Well, you're safe then. I don't think John Wayne's is available in anything but widescreen on DVD. It's only John Lee Hancock's that suffers the degradation of a full-screen, pan-and-scan DVD release -- but it is marked on top. I'm proud that you have the "right" version. :lol: A full-screen version of any panavision movie is just showing the middle of the width of the picture. You are losing nearly 50 percent of the width of the image.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Losoya1836 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:54 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Well, you're safe then. I don't think John Wayne's is available in anything but widescreen on DVD. It's only John Lee Hancock's that suffers the degradation of a full-screen, pan-and-scan DVD release -- but it is marked on top. I'm proud that you have the "right" version. :lol: A full-screen version of any panavision movie is just showing the middle of the width of the picture. You are losing nearly 50 percent of the width of the image.


i am safe! From the dangers of a viscous fullscreen lol :lol:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:14 am

Note to self: Jenny talks a good talk! :lol:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Losoya1836 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:35 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Note to self: Jenny talks a good talk! :lol:


Haha thanks ! :lol:
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:57 pm

For those of you who have Encore Western Channel, THE ALAMO (1960) will be showing at 7:00 PM this evening and 2:30 AM tomorrow morning.
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:44 am

NefariousNed wrote:For those of you who have Encore Western Channel, THE ALAMO (1960) will be showing at 7:00 PM this evening and 2:30 AM tomorrow morning.

Never, sez I. ;) (P.S. -- Commercials, incorrect formatting, cuts......).
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Re: The Alamo 1960 on Television

Postby Rob on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:22 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
NefariousNed wrote:For those of you who have Encore Western Channel, THE ALAMO (1960) will be showing at 7:00 PM this evening and 2:30 AM tomorrow morning.

Never, sez I. ;) (P.S. -- Commercials, incorrect formatting, cuts......).

Picky, picky, picky! You know, you can't TRULY appreciate the good version unless you take the time to watch a few mutilated versions along the way! :D
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