The Script

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:01 pm

wconly wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:
MUSTANG wrote:And before anyone jumps on me, I'm not accusing anyone of trying to deceive others on purpose. Far from it. Just trying to nail down yet another issue. Like the saying goes, "Everybody's got an opinion..."

Yeah, I think this *other* copy of the script is simply somebody doing it out of love -- like I used to draw pictures of the Mo.

Sounds familiar! I used to have a Junior High art teacher who used to get rather preterbed at me because all I wanted to draw was the Wayneamo facade for all of my art projects :lol: ! W>

This same syndrome followed me all the way through college -- and even now to some degree (but it can now be categorized as pseudo-professional).
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Re: The Script

Postby batjacdon on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 am

I need to get on here more often. Ned, I'm sure I did send you a copy of the script you are posting here, but if memory serves, it would have been in the late 70's. I really can't remember where I got that, but it has a cover page that simply says "The Alamo" with no wrting credit to J.E. Grant or date. At the time, we thought it was the original script with J.W.'s handwritten notes. Most of you know that I got a copy of the script from Michael in 1981 when I helped Batjac fill in some gaps with the Russell Birdwell files when they were writing a mini-series on J.W. After I got the script from Michael, I threw this one into the back of the file cabinet because it was a zerox copy and when I compared the hand-written notes on the one from Batjac I knew this one didn't have J.W.'s original notes on it. The writing is too clearly legible. On my script, J.W. is writing on a flimsy page of paper, probably standing up and in a hurry. To those who have copies of my Batjac script, look on the back of page 27...the "B" is clearly different then the "B" on page 21 of this copy.
I think the first copy is important, because I'm sure it came from an original early script version, but I imagine it was re-typed and the hand written notes were added (maybe they were on the one that was copied). Not sure here, but I'm certain it's not original J.W. handwritten notes.
Anybody on here that knew me back in the 70's know where I got it?
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:21 am

batjacdon wrote:Anybody on here that knew me back in the 70's know where I got it?

Heck, Don, I don't even know where I got mine! I thought it was from you. :lol:
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Re: The Script

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:30 am

And I can't remember where I got either of my two copies. Memory is the second thing to go, no wait, the first thing, oh shoot, I forget.
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:11 am

I think it has to do with hair color.
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:00 am

There are some interesting lines in the script that hearken back to THE LAST COMMAND. On page 26, for instance,
when Crockett tells Parson to round up a few men to get Emil "Strauss' " powder from the "wooden" bell tower of
the church.

PARSON: Only one I could wake was the boy here.

COTTON (indignantly): I ain't no boy -- I'm sixteen -- almost.

In LAST COMMAND, Consuela tells Bowie she is "Eighteen", and then "Nineteen -- almost."
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Re: The Script

Postby gtj222 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:08 am

I wish the original Grant script was around. That would be interesting to see how The Last Command and John Wayne's Alamo came to be.
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:22 am

gtj222 wrote:I wish the original Grant script was around. That would be interesting to see how The Last Command and John Wayne's Alamo came to be.

Well, as I seem to recall, it was John Ford's son, Patrick Ford who wrote the original draft for THE ALAMO which later became known as
LAST COMMAND. This was back when John Wayne was still in the picture with Republic. When Wayne left Republic, Ford's script stayed
behind. When LAST COMMAND. was released, writing credit went to Warren Duff from a story by Sy Bartlett. Too much of Ford's original
script seems to have been left in LAST COMMAND to be written off as mere coincidence though. And Jimmy Grant must've had access to
Ford's script when he wrote his script for THE ALAMO. Scenes in both films such as the raid for cannon, sneaking by the Mexican army by
walking through the river, Crockett dying by blowing up the powder magazine, etc..

What I've been presenting here are segments of an early James Edward Grant script for THE ALAMO. And believe me, it gets worse---then hilarious.
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Re: The Script

Postby gtj222 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:29 am

Yea, I know...I have a copy of the script and it is bad.
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:47 am

What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:
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Re: The Script

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:00 am

Ned, you are correct. "The Last Command" was made from Pat Ford's script. However, Grant did re-write on that script while still at Republic so some of those scenes we discuss here may have initially been written by Grant. By the way, for those who were in San Antonio for the 50th celebration, Pat Ford's script was on display in one of the cases.
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Re: The Script

Postby K Hale on Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:39 am

RLC-GTT wrote:What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:

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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:35 pm

Wayne was wise enough to leave out other certain parts of Grant's script, such as the scene where Crockett and his Tennesseans are trying to serenade Bowie to get him to stay in the Alamo. In the draft I have, Beekeeper breaks out his guitar and begins to sing "The Ballad Of Davy Crockett". When he finishes this, he breaks into "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic". Soon all the Tennesseans, including Crockett, are bellowing it out.

The next morning, Crockett gets Cotton (Smitty) to help him to shame Bowie into staying. Crockett asks Bowie to tell Cotton about the sandbar fight.

BOWIE: Nothing to tell -- me and this hellbender had some words -- that's all.

CROCKETT: Now the way the boy tells it, this here fella forced a fight on you. That right?

BOWIE: Yes.

CROCKETT: And he favored that you both should go out on the sand bar and only one get back to the steamboat?

BOWIE: That's the way of it.

CROCKETT: And you chosed to tie your left arms together and hold hunting knives in your right -- that it?

BOWIE: That's it.

Grant had the opportunity to tell the real story of the sandbar fight and yet he concocts this much less interesting, less incredible
version of it. And, to be sure, he must've been on a good drunk when he decided to have Beekeeper singing "The Ballad Of Davy
Crockett", followed by The Battle Hymn Of The Republic". :roll:
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Re: The Script

Postby K Hale on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:03 pm

Nefarious wrote:Wayne was wise enough to leave out other certain parts of Grant's script, such as the scene where Crockett and his Tennesseans are trying to serenade Bowie to get him to stay in the Alamo. In the draft I have, Beekeeper breaks out his guitar and begins to sing "The Ballad Of Davy Crockett". When he finishes this, he breaks into "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic". Soon all the Tennesseans, including Crockett, are bellowing it out.

The next morning, Crockett gets Cotton (Smitty) to help him to shame Bowie into staying. Crockett asks Bowie to tell Cotton about the sandbar fight.

BOWIE: Nothing to tell -- me and this hellbender had some words -- that's all.

CROCKETT: Now the way the boy tells it, this here fella forced a fight on you. That right?

BOWIE: Yes.

CROCKETT: And he favored that you both should go out on the sand bar and only one get back to the steamboat?

BOWIE: That's the way of it.

CROCKETT: And you chosed to tie your left arms together and hold hunting knives in your right -- that it?

BOWIE: That's it.

Grant had the opportunity to tell the real story of the sandbar fight and yet he concocts this much less interesting, less incredible
version of it. And, to be sure, he must've been on a good drunk when he decided to have Beekeeper singing "The Ballad Of Davy
Crockett", followed by The Battle Hymn Of The Republic". :roll:

As much FAIL as there was in all of this, what ticks me off the most is what stayed in the script: The concept of Bowie having to be persuaded to stay. He had decided to stay on February 2, long before the furry hat guy or the line-drawing guy even showed up... :evil:
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:25 pm

If you enjoyed that, you will just love Bowie's death scene.

INT. HOSPITAL
Dr. Grant is bandaging Bowie's leg. Crockett and Travis are in the scene. In b.g. are twenty some wounded defenders
of the Mission who still live.

DR. GRANT: I'll have you carried to a cot.

TRAVIS: Doctor, you underestimate Major Bowie -- He will wish to continue in command of his men. (turns to Dickinson)
Have some men bring the swivel chair from my office -- They can tie Major Bowie into it and place him where his men
can hear his commands. (to Bowie, as Dickinson goes) I'm sure you prefer that, Major.

BOWIE: Thank you.

TRAVIS: My sincerest wishes for your recovery -- and I'm sure you will understand my leaving. I am needed on the rampart.

LATER...

GROUP SHOT FAVORING BOWIE. Strapped in the swivel chair, as he calmly kills men as they rush him. When his pistols are
empty, out comes the immortal Bowie knife, as he is still slashing and stabbing as a bayonet goes through him and he dies.
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Re: The Script

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:28 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:


Rich, isnt a lot of the "silly" lines in old movies,actually a case of us watching them through 21st century eyes. Joe
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Re: The Script

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:11 pm

Today the lines might be more like this Hennessey: Oh No---God, Daaamn it!!!

Wills: Oh Yes-----Don't blame Him!!!

Wayne: and it's my turn-----Say, goodnight!!! Joe
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Re: The Script

Postby Rob on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:45 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:


It's funny, because that's exactly what I think when I try to show the movie to somebody new (thanks again for the DVD, Ned). But when I'm watching it by myself, for the 79th time, I realize that it's the goofy parts that lighten the spirit enough to make the movie easy to take time and again. There are some dramatic war movies out there done magnificently, but I won't watch them more than once or twice, due to the state of mind it puts me in. After I finish watching the Waynamo, I already know that, Good Lord willing, I'm gonna do it again! :D
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Re: The Script

Postby K Hale on Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:17 pm

Nefarious wrote:If you enjoyed that, you will just love Bowie's death scene.

INT. HOSPITAL
Dr. Grant is bandaging Bowie's leg. Crockett and Travis are in the scene. In b.g. are twenty some wounded defenders
of the Mission who still live.

DR. GRANT: I'll have you carried to a cot.

TRAVIS: Doctor, you underestimate Major Bowie -- He will wish to continue in command of his men. (turns to Dickinson)
Have some men bring the swivel chair from my office -- They can tie Major Bowie into it and place him where his men
can hear his commands. (to Bowie, as Dickinson goes) I'm sure you prefer that, Major.

BOWIE: Thank you.

TRAVIS: My sincerest wishes for your recovery -- and I'm sure you will understand my leaving. I am needed on the rampart.

LATER...

GROUP SHOT FAVORING BOWIE. Strapped in the swivel chair, as he calmly kills men as they rush him. When his pistols are
empty, out comes the immortal Bowie knife, as he is still slashing and stabbing as a bayonet goes through him and he dies.

This reads exactly like an SNL skit. Has to be tongue-in-cheek, has to be.
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Re: The Script

Postby gtj222 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:05 pm

Can't you just see Jethrow pushing Bowie in that swivel chair all through the Alamo Compound as Bowie mows the Mexican army down with his guns as they try to enter the compound? :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:14 am

JoeFDNY146 wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:


Rich, isnt a lot of the "silly" lines in old movies,actually a case of us watching them through 21st century eyes. Joe

Joe, I'm here to say that I thought that was all just as silly the first time I saw the movie in 1961 -- fifty years ago.
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:18 am

Rob wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:What annoys me is that all the goofy parts of the final movie are directly from the earlier script. It's a shame Wayne didn't realize how silly some of that stuff would look -- Chill Wills in Tom Hennesey's face with "Oh no!" and "Oh yes, and it's my turn!" Just childish stuff that dragged the movie down and negated my argument about how good a movie it was. :roll:


It's funny, because that's exactly what I think when I try to show the movie to somebody new (thanks again for the DVD, Ned). But when I'm watching it by myself, for the 79th time, I realize that it's the goofy parts that lighten the spirit enough to make the movie easy to take time and again. There are some dramatic war movies out there done magnificently, but I won't watch them more than once or twice, due to the state of mind it puts me in. After I finish watching the Waynamo, I already know that, Good Lord willing, I'm gonna do it again! :D

And I do indeed agree with this. Sounds conflicting to feel both ways about stupid scenes like that, but maybe Frank Thompson had that answered best when he said, "The Alamo is like a drunken uncle. You know what he is but you still love him." :lol:
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:21 am

Nefarious wrote:Grant had the opportunity to tell the real story of the sandbar fight and yet he concocts this much less interesting, less incredible
version of it. And, to be sure, he must've been on a good drunk when he decided to have Beekeeper singing "The Ballad Of Davy
Crockett", followed by The Battle Hymn Of The Republic". :roll:

Early drafts of screenplays often suffer from problems like this. First drafts of The Alamo '04 even had Jefferson Davis as one of the characters!!! :roll: Fortunately, John Lee Hancock got hold of it.
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:54 pm

In an early version of the epic "THE ALAMO: 13 Days To Glory" script, Bowie (James Arness) and Crockett (Brian Keith) are talking about why they
are in San Antonio.


BOWIE: What about you, Davy? This isn't Tennessee. Or Washington.

CROCKETT: No, but I'm finding San Antonio a whole lot friendlier than Tennessee these days. And compared to the likes of Andy Jackson and
the U.S. Congress, I expect to find Santy Anny down right neighborly. 'Sides... I told Andy to go to Hell.

BOWIE: The President?

CROCKETT: Stonewall himself. All in all, I think he was happy to see me go.
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:42 pm

Well..... Stonewall..... Old Hickory..... Old Hickory Face.... What's the difference. :roll: :lol:

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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:25 pm

As William Shakespeare once said in one of HIS scripts (he was a wise old bard), "T-Bird or not T-Bird. That ain't no question." :D
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Re: The Script

Postby wconly on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:54 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:As William Shakespeare once said in one of HIS scripts (he was a wise old bard), "T-Bird or not T-Bird. That ain't no question." :D

Ugh 8-) :roll: ! W>
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Re: The Script

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:00 pm

Nefarious wrote:If you enjoyed that, you will just love Bowie's death scene.



GROUP SHOT FAVORING BOWIE. Strapped in the swivel chair, as he calmly kills men as they rush him. When his pistols are
empty, out comes the immortal Bowie knife, as he is still slashing and stabbing as a bayonet goes through him and he dies.



Ned,I found a still of that original scene Joe
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:19 pm

Wow, he certain was near death anyway, wasn't he?! :o ;)
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Re: The Script

Postby wconly on Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:40 pm

Nefarious wrote:Wow, he certain was near death anyway, wasn't he?! :o ;)

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Re: The Script

Postby K Hale on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:48 am

JoeFDNY146 wrote:
Nefarious wrote:If you enjoyed that, you will just love Bowie's death scene.



GROUP SHOT FAVORING BOWIE. Strapped in the swivel chair, as he calmly kills men as they rush him. When his pistols are
empty, out comes the immortal Bowie knife, as he is still slashing and stabbing as a bayonet goes through him and he dies.



Ned,I found a still of that original scene Joe

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Re: The Script

Postby JoeFDNY146 on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:56 am

Kristi,How do you really feel?? :D :D Joe
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Re: The Script

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:23 am

K Hale wrote:Oh look! Somebody else who would've been an improvement over Widmark!

Ooooo! Put a little turkey and dressing in her and she REALLY gets vicious. :lol:
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Re: The Script

Postby K Hale on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:27 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:Oh look! Somebody else who would've been an improvement over Widmark!

Ooooo! Put a little turkey and dressing in her and she REALLY gets vicious. :lol:

Turkeys, the half-living, Widmark as Bowie... it all ties together.
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Re: The Script

Postby MUSTANG on Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:08 am

I was recently fortunate enough to obtain a complete copy of the September 20, 1948 Patrick Ford Alamo treatment while he was employed at Republic Studios. While not wanting to share it all (wait for the book!) I thought I'd post a condensed version of the opening sequence.

SAN ANTONIO STREET...1836...A column of weary Mexican troopers clatters through the deserted street of the little Texas pueblo. They are dust covered and ride in silence. The CAMERA FOLLOWS the troopers down the street until they enter a large plaza thronged with Mexican soldiers. An officer and guidon bearer gallop out of the plaza and toward the Alamo which can be seen in the distance. The enlisted man carries a lance from which a white pennant is visable. A lone figure stands on the thick wall of the Alamo; he wears a frock coat and beaver hat and holds a cigar. A cannon stands beside him. The officer speaks:
"Donde esta su commandante?"
"A su servicio," repiles top hat.
The officer reads an ultimatium.
"I, Antonio Lopes de Santa Anna, President of the Republic of Mexcio and Supreme Commander of the Army of Operations, call upon you to surrender yourselves to the discretion of the supreme government, from whom and whom only..."
Frock-coat touches his cigar to the breech of the cannon, it detonates, cutting short the flowery edict...

TITLES appear in the smoke. Sound familiar?
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Re: The Script

Postby gtj222 on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:23 pm

Cool stuff!!!! When does the book come out and I hope it is not going to cost $120.00? :D
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:56 pm

MUSTANG wrote: Sound familiar?


I give up. Are you suggesting that some other movie starts similarly?

I don't like the idea of his having Santa Anna personally deliver the surrender ultimatum.
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Re: The Script

Postby MUSTANG on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 pm

Ned, you missed the point. I was suggesting the firing of the cannon when an officer read the ultimatium eventually found it's way from Ford's treatment into Grant's script. :lol:
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Re: The Script

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:17 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Ned, you missed the point. I was suggesting the firing of the cannon when an officer read the ultimatium eventually found it's way from Ford's treatment into Grant's script. :lol:

Oh, okay. Am really looking forward to your book all the more now.

(And I also misinterpreted the quote from the script. It is an officer reading Santa Anna's ultimatum.)
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Re: The Script

Postby MUSTANG on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:17 am

For those two or three people who may be interested in the book, a portion of one chapter will be published in a forthcoming issue of "The Alamo Journal" or so some folks say, focusing on the death of LaJean Ethridge.
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