Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:59 pm

Alamo John UK wrote:In my original post I didn't mean to imply that it was actually Harvey lying there, just that it was "Travis" and that it was nice "attention to detail" sort of stuff, however the possibility did occur to me that it may have been the end of that particular scene caught from the canon mound, but after John and Rich's logical and knowledgeable input, it is now beyond doubt that it is indeed a dummy lying where Travis fell.

Still a nice detail though !


All said, deep background details are faaaaaaar more important in a movie shot in 65 mm.Todd-AO than in 35 mm. Panavision. Those backgrounds were amzingly "in your face" in the movie theaters. (Possibly why nobody today can show me the school bus in the background -- lost in the pixels.). So I would think they were paying more attention to background detail than normal. In other words, they would make sure a double or dummy dressed in Travis' costume were there.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby NefariousNed on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:50 pm

Makes sense the way you put it, Jim...er Rich.

That what always irks me whenever I watch scenes from 13 DAYS TO GLORY. Whenever they show a closeup of say men at the
palisade, there's absolutely nothing in the background. It's as though the rest of the Alamo is completely deserted. Then as the
scene shifts to yet another wall this same absolutely nothing in the background occurs again. I thought Burt Kennedy was better
than that, Rich.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:19 pm

Nefarious wrote:Makes sense the way you put it, Jim...er Rich.

That what always irks me whenever I watch scenes from 13 DAYS TO GLORY. Whenever they show a closeup of say men at the
palisade, there's absolutely nothing in the background. It's as though the rest of the Alamo is completely deserted. Then as the
scene shifts to yet another wall this same absolutely nothing in the background occurs again. I thought Burt Kennedy was better
than that, Rich.


Not Burt's fault, Ned. How many extras and which days you get them -- particularly on a TV movie -- is purely a function of budget. My guess is that Burt opted for 200 rather than 100 extras on days of big angles in exchange for 10 rather than 20 extras on other closer dialogue days. As I remember, they had a very limited budget. What is amazing is what second unit director Dave Cass did get in battle scenes. They intercut well with The Last Command stock footage -- except for the set.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby AlamoMo on Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:32 pm

I was chatting away via some emails earlier with our good friend and
forum member John Quinn who as an extra on the film was in Bowie’s
command about a scene he was in ( John is marked out with a white arrow )
and it was to do when Santa Anna fired his huge cannon and upset Chill
Wills for the rest of the film. ;) :cry:

Here is what John had to say about it:

Regarding the wall explosion, it was a 'one time shot'. After we were placed,
stuntmen were closest to the blown wall, Duke took the time to explain to us
how the 'explosion' would take place. When he gave 'Action' the Special Effects
man set off a flammable 'cocktail' and triggered mechanical rigs that broke the
masonry fast.

Duke was surprised, I believe, that the concussion was as powerful as it was.
He had explained that it would not be harmful but as you can see in the photo
a lot of things were flying through the air very rapidly.

That would give you an idea of how much of a 'blow-up' occurred even if some
of material was lightweight foam blocks.

Chills whiskey barrel was broken up separately and set aflame by Special Effects.

It was a terrific scene to be in, for any movie. No one was injured, Mo.

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:20 am

To John's left, hatless, grey shirt, hold a rifle is Tommy Worrel.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby AlamoMo on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:27 pm

I did a quick bit of research on Tommy and came up
with this:

http://tommycowboy.com/Tommy_Cowboy/Tra ... esume.html

Regards

Mo
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby findem_killem on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:55 pm

If you watch the explosion closely it looks like there was a stand in for Wayne. If that is true does anyone know his name?
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby AlamoMo on Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Hi Larry

Good question Sir

I have just e mailed " John Quinn " the extra marked with the white arrow in the
screen capture to ask him if he can shed some light on it and as soon as I hear
back I will let you know

Sincerest to you

Mo
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby AlamoMo on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:06 pm

Here you go Larry

Just had this e mail from John Quinn

Regards

Mo

His Reply:

Mo, it was Duke himself as was Richard. We all hit the 'deck' together.

That's what you got to like about John Wayne, Actor, Director, Producer
and Stuntman.

It was a great privilege to be in that scene with them.

Your friend in Indiana,

John
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby findem_killem on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:21 am

Thanks for the info John/Mo. I always thought it was a stuntman standing in for Wayne. To me the individual looked thin and drawn. That is why I thought it was someone else/ With so much on the line I figured they couldn't take the chance of him getting hurt. Besides they used a stunt man in the street fight scene and that seemed alot less risky to me than a building blowing up in your face, go figure. Can you imagine what would have happened to the picture if he was seriously hurt?
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:30 am

Here is the explosion scene in sequence:

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:50 am

Two-camera coverage (at least) with a jump-cut in the middle.

Stunt doubling isn't just a matter of safety and insurance. And actor is stunt-doubled usually to put a snap in his movement. See Bandolero! and the fight scene between Dean Martin and Rudy Diaz (the Bandolero jefe). When you can actually see Dean Martin in close shots, it's Dean Martin. When your not close enough to clearly identify him, it is Hal Needham, the stunt coordinator, doubling him. Watch their movements. When you see Needham, he is very obviously more athletic and lithe than old Dino.

Duke Wayne didn't really need this. He stayed pretty athletic until post-lung-cancer days. Dropping to the ground (as in the Beekeeper scene) is a lot less demanding (and revealing of inability) than more major action scenes. And, yes, risk to the star and director does play a major part, but it was Duke's movie. Duke needed his stand-in to replace him during set-up rehearsals and lighting far more than he needed a stunt double. Of course, he had both Bob Morgan and Chuck Roberson on-set to double him when it was necessary.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby AlamoMo on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:51 am

Thanks for the superb " Screen Caps " Ned

They sure show the power of the actual blast.

Regards

Mo
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:34 pm

Yup, I spoke to John Quinn last night and he believed that the explosion occurred before Wayne anticipated it. He stated that both
he (Quinn) and Widmark started to move micro-seconds before the explosion but Wayne was still standing erect. What resulted
was an un-rehearsed, honest expression of surprise by Wayne.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MartyB on Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:17 pm

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MartyB on Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Also....

I can't see where I posted these before but I may have.....
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby cc nolen on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:56 pm

Seems like everytime they show the movie on one of the channels they leave out the death of the parson, and you never sees the birthday party....never know what they may cut.
Chris...
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:47 pm

He's about to have a heap of sins to answer fer....Chill Wills death scene
Chris...
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:10 pm

cc nolen wrote:Seems like everytime they show the movie on one of the channels they leave out the death of the parson, and you never sees the birthday party....never know what they may cut.
Chris...

Chris, the Parson's death scene, the birthday party scene, the scouting mission that sees the cattle... all these were part of what Batjac cut out in 1960 for the reduced version of the movie, both in 70 mm. and 35 mm. The only place you are going to see those scenes is a broadcast (like Turner) that shows the director's cut -- the 192 minute version -- rather than the cut version (161 minutes) or the later TV version (141 minutes). I don't think stations are arbitrarily cutting individual scenes -- at least, I HOPE not.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:12 pm

And, of course, you will see those scenes on the director's cut VHS releases and the laser disc.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm

I'm glad to hear that...Davy had sent me the un-cut version of the 1960 Alamo....but I was watching the 2004 Alamo on the Military Channel and they cut alot from the movie.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:46 pm

cc nolen wrote:I'm glad to hear that...Davy had sent me the un-cut version of the 1960 Alamo....but I was watching the 2004 Alamo on the Military Channel and they cut alot from the movie.

Well, this is why I WILL NOT watch a favorite film on TV unless I know it is on a program or network that prides itself in presenting film in their original form and aspect ratio -- without commercial interruption. In other words, I don't watch anything but my own carefully selected DVD's and BluRays. ;)
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:38 am

Just an FYI. Earlier in this thread there were some comments made regarding Wayne's possible double. Recently, I found out that our friend Marshall Jones, in addition to being Wayne's lighting stand-in, also functioned as his double in scenes in which Wayne would not be immediately recognizable; extreme long shots, only seeing his back, etc. Or so I've been told. Now, I have to just see if I can identify him. LOL!
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:47 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
garyzaboly wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:I'm at a loss. Where are you talking about in the Last Command battle scenes? You never see any of the chapel other than the matte painting when they are going in, the shots in the studio set with the fractional doorway and.... that's all I can think of. Apse explosion? Where? (Obviously, I don't have the film before me at the moment.)



Talking about a scene from Wayne's movie, with an explosion and smoke suddenly appearing during the Mexican assault, from that location.

Aha! O.K. I'll have to check that out. My up-front guess is it was just background pyrotechnics with no plan connected to the script or set. Sort of, "Gimme some smoke back there -- and some explosions!" ;)
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:56 pm

If you watch this scene at the very beginning of the final assault, you can see that the smoke is actually issuing from and not directed at the apse
of the chapel.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:04 am

You guys are right. Wow! Never noticed that. Can't figure it. They never once suggested the apse battery guns back there, and clearly used the interior otherwise. The truth certainly couldn't have escaped Wayne or Ybarra though. They probably had Frederick Ray's drawing on their wall. :lol:
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MartyB on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:35 am

Of interest...

My son sent this to me....He believes (as I do ) that this is the 'Parson' meeting his maker...

Any thoughts...
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby Seguin on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:58 am

The hat looks like the Parson´s hat alright, so it could very well be him.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:36 am

That is a still of the filming of Parson's death scene. Not sure which stuntman doubled him for this fall, but my guess would be Dean Smith, since he was the skinniest.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:28 pm

So ask him. Some of you know him pretty well. And is he not writing a book?
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:53 pm

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:So ask him. Some of you know him pretty well. And is he not writing a book?

John Farkis is, Ron. Patience and all shall be known.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby Davy on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:31 am

Nefarious wrote:
Fargo Fenwyck wrote:So ask him. Some of you know him pretty well. And is he not writing a book?

John Farkis is, Ron. Patience and all shall be known.


Its gonna be a biggun Davy ... firin frum all the way over hyar! :o :lol:

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:44 am

Yes, that's the Parson. And, no, I can't reveal all the secrets. You'll have to buy the book. LOL!!! 615 pages so far, 277,000 words, and counting. But, it's getting close to being complete. It will probably be published in both soft cover and as an e-book. Fingers crossed, Spring of next year.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:34 pm

Well I guess I'll just have to saddle up and pay ol' John a visit come Spring. He's just a bit North of me.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby Davy on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:22 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Yes, that's the Parson. And, no, I can't reveal all the secrets. You'll have to buy the book. LOL!!! 615 pages so far, 277,000 words, and counting. But, it's getting close to being complete. It will probably be published in both soft cover and as an e-book. Fingers crossed, Spring of next year.


At a dollar a page ... that aint much iffin you say it quick, fast, & ina real big hurry! :o :lol:

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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby mrbassbone on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:20 pm

If it is in NOOK format, please make sure that pictures are included. Most books on Nook do not include them.
MUSTANG wrote:Yes, that's the Parson. And, no, I can't reveal all the secrets. You'll have to buy the book. LOL!!! 615 pages so far, 277,000 words, and counting. But, it's getting close to being complete. It will probably be published in both soft cover and as an e-book. Fingers crossed, Spring of next year.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:36 pm

Photos will be included.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:46 am

MUSTANG wrote:Photos will be included.


That's great, John. Because my new Kindle Fire HD is ready and waiting to download it for my reading pleasure. And I just finished reading that book on the Alamo by James Donovan on my other Kindle and the pictures were included. That was a great book by the way.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby mrbassbone on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:51 am

The difference between Kindle and NOOK is <among others> photos. I found that out the hard way when ordering books for NOOK and then seeing the hardbound versions. Line drawings are on NOOK but for the moment...no photographs....grrrr

TexianAtHeartII wrote:
MUSTANG wrote:Photos will be included.


That's great, John. Because my new Kindle Fire HD is ready and waiting to download it for my reading pleasure. And I just finished reading that book on the Alamo by James Donovan on my other Kindle and the pictures were included. That was a great book by the way.
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Re: Actual Scenes From THE ALAMO (1960) Film

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:44 am

Of course, you could always buy the limited edition, personally autographed, very expensive, hard-cover version. LOL!!!! Shoot, I may even come down and read it for you!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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