Waynamo Bloopers

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:27 am

RLC-GTT wrote:No problem with the "preaching," whether Grant putting words in John Wayne's mouth or Barrett doing the same for Jimmy Stewart (Barrett was a Penn Stater too! ;) ). I'm just saying it isn't the best filmmaking -- and, with today's audiences, it crashes and burns.


I agree about the differences between 'Gettysburg' and 'Gods and Generals'...I also agree that some of the dialogue in question 'crashes and burns' with today's audiences...but we part company on old fashioned dialogue not being the best film making...Some of 'The Alamo' is bad film making but the speeches really aren't to me...i even liked the dialogue dealing with the existence of God...Remember........"I say this, I believe. I can never find a way to argue down you that don’t believe, but I believe in the Lord God Almighty, all knowing and all forgiving. And I believe that Good shall be triumphant in the end and that evil shall be vanquished."

John Wayne is almost an American Myth…as with any mythology the individuals of the story must meet certain criteria of characterization…and his speeches (dialogue) are essential to his character…

Movies today have degenerated from an ‘art and entertainment form’ to a ‘visual and adolescent vulgarity gratification form’…Not only is Wayne’s ‘old’ dialogue ‘hokey’ and ‘old fashioned’ so are the scripted lines of the old heroes like Cooper, Stewart, Fonda, Cary Grant, Bogart, and even Randolph Scott…These actors and their movies were wildly popular because they told good stories but they also articulated the code of right verses wrong through both actions and words…Words were important…They meant something…Often the stars gave ‘statements’ that would be considered preachy…People wanted things stated…things said…Also you got a lot more (without vulgarity) from John Wayne saying “That’ll be the day” than you got from Bruce Willis’s “Yippie Ki Yay M***F***!”

By the time Wayne made the Alamo I think he felt it was time and probably his only opportunity to ‘state’ his beliefs (preach as it were)…So he did…I can’t help it…I like the sound of the word Republic…I want to live my life to justify the pain my Mother went through giving me birth…to do something worth while in this world…
I didn’t just ‘enjoy’ those speeches…I ‘needed’ ‘em

It might not be called good movie making today…but if ‘audience attractive’ dialogue was the precedent in making a movie then Shakespeare movies would never get made…

Some comments that the Duke made about movie making…

“I'm glad I won't be around much longer to see what they do with it. The men who control the big studios today are stock manipulators and bankers. They know nothing about our business. They're in it for the buck. The only thing they can do is say, "Jeez, that picture with what's-her-name running around the park naked made money, so let's make another one…Some of these guys remind me of high-class whores...As much as I couldn't stand some of the old-time moguls - especially Harry Cohn - these men took an interest in the future of their business. They had integrity…But today's executives don't give a damn…they're producing garbage.

Every time they rate a picture, they let a little more go. Ratings are ridiculous to begin with. There was no need for rated pictures when the major studios were in control. Movies were once made for the whole family. Now, with the kind of junk the studios are cranking out-and the jacked-up prices they're charging for the privilege of seeing it - the average family is staying home and watching television.… I'm very conscious that people criticize Hollywood.

Yet we've created a form, the Western, that can be understood in every country. The good guys against the bad guys. No nuances. And the horse is the best vehicle of action in our medium. You take action, a scene, and scenery, and cut them together, and you never miss. Action, scene, scenery. But when you think about the Western - ones I've made, for example. "Stagecoach", "Red River", "The Searchers", a picture named "Hondo" that had a little depth to it - it's an American art form. It represents what this country is about. In "True Grit", for example, that scene where Rooster shoots the rat. That was a kind of reference to today's problems. Oh, not that True Grit has a message or anything. But that scene was about less accommodation, and more justice. They keep bringing up the fact that America's for the downtrodden. But this new thing of genuflecting to the downtrodden, I don't go along with that. We ought to go back to praising the kids who get good grades, instead of making excuses for the ones who shoot the neighborhood grocery man…”

Then there is this…

“Once I was working in a movie with Harry Carey and his wife Olive [Olive Carey], and I was complaining about being typed. "Duke," Ollie said, "look at Harry over there - would you like to see Harry Carey play any other way?". "Of course not," I said. "Well," Ollie said, "the American public doesn't want to see you any other way, either. So wake up, Duke! Be what they want you to be." See, I'm not against Women's Lib. Ollie gave me some real good advice.”




Sorry…didn’t mean to preach…………………..
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:10 pm

Hummmm....

Did ya notice the two defenders on top of the Long Barracks 'scared stiff' during the 1st assault...
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:06 pm

Those dummies are absolutely pathetic! I cringe for the film every time I see that scene -- all the activity in every part of the frame and those two dummies standing stock still, leaning at angles where they could never stand stock still without falling. Such a great movie, and they end up with a stupid (GLARING) detail like that. :roll: (If they had only straightened them up, they would have gone unnoticed!!!!!)
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby mrbassbone on Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:48 am

They were not the only dummies that looked terrible. When the cannon shot hits as the final assault begins...there is an obvious stick or strawman on the wall. Bad, bad, bad.
RLC-GTT wrote:Those dummies are absolutely pathetic! I cringe for the film every time I see that scene -- all the activity in every part of the frame and those two dummies standing stock still, leaning at angles where they could never stand stock still without falling. Such a great movie, and they end up with a stupid (GLARING) detail like that. :roll: (If they had only straightened them up, they would have gone unnoticed!!!!!)
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby wconly on Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:29 am

mrbassbone wrote:They were not the only dummies that looked terrible. When the cannon shot hits as the final assault begins...there is an obvious stick or strawman on the wall. Bad, bad, bad.
RLC-GTT wrote:Those dummies are absolutely pathetic! I cringe for the film every time I see that scene -- all the activity in every part of the frame and those two dummies standing stock still, leaning at angles where they could never stand stock still without falling. Such a great movie, and they end up with a stupid (GLARING) detail like that. :roll: (If they had only straightened them up, they would have gone unnoticed!!!!!)

Well guys....cut 'them' some slack! After all -- they're only dummies :lol: :roll: :lol: 8-) ! Sorry....started with you Rich and then with this addition -- couldn't resist! Shell! You should've known better -- you made my target too easy! Thanks for the laugh, though! Too bad none of us were laughing 'with' the movie, instead of 'crying' with it over this :cry: ! W>
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby mrbassbone on Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:57 pm

It is as you said...they should have known better.
"Tenacity, Dick! Stay with the B*****DS until they are on the bottom!"

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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:18 pm

"Never mind. It's a good scene, and nobody'll notice the dummies. They'll be too busy watching the battle."

And notice, this isn't even a scene we can blame modern digital slow motion and freeze-framing for revealing. We all laughted and pointed in the theaters in 1961.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby gh1836 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:39 am

Well thanks alot guys! I still to this day had not noticed the dummys up there! As many times as I've watched it too! I guess my eyes are staying where Wayne wanted them. ..on the Mexican assault! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:18 am

It wouldn't be so embarrassing if the dummies weren't silhouetted against the sky. Too too obvious to be forgiven. :lol:
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Pudman on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:45 pm

Remember! Movies and TV shows at this time did not have Video tapes, Laserdiscs, DVD, Blu-Ray, Video Recorders, etc. At that time unless you kept going back to the theater for repeat viewings, onne was meant to watch once and be gone. No pausing or repeat viewings to find "Bloopers".
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:36 pm

Pudman wrote:Remember! Movies and TV shows at this time did not have Video tapes, Laserdiscs, DVD, Blu-Ray, Video Recorders, etc. At that time unless you kept going back to the theater for repeat viewings, onne was meant to watch once and be gone. No pausing or repeat viewings to find "Bloopers".

True indeed.... and very important for understanding. A film must be considered in relation to its era. That said, I think the first place I really noticed those dummies was in the publicity still from outside the south wall as the Mexicans are attacking.

There is also a clear difference in what a viewer sees between a TV screen and a large theater screen (and to some degree a large screen HDTV with the DVD played on a BluRay machine). In the later cases, you are "in" the picture rather than simply looking "at" the picture. You and the important action are in the foreground, but much much more is going on in the deep background -- and your eyes are more likely to be drawn past the foreground characters and action to actually notice details in the background than they are when you see the whole image at the same time. This was the power and depth of 70 mm. Todd-AO. But even this phenomenon is reserved for a second or third viewing of the movie if you can't freeze-frame it. This is why I HAD to go back again and again to see The Alamo, Spartacus and Ben-Hur in the theaters. There was always more to see! ;)
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:42 pm

Two cases in point to support Pudman's point. How could you EVER miss the giant continuity error in The Alamo where, in the Cantina sequence, the Tennessean disappears after the other Tennessean punches him and takes the girl off his shoulders?!!! Well, I never noticed it until later video-watching years. And another blooper earlier in the same sequence is when you see the modern-dressed crew member looking around the edge of the back door of the Cantina in the background when Crockett tells Beekeeper that "Beseme a kiss, senorita" is the "most important part" of the "proud Spanish" language. The fellow quickly realizes he's in the shot and backs out of sight. I never saw that until two or three years ago while literally studying that scene.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:30 pm

Here's some 'fur-un' lobby cards that look like they were tinted by a 9 year old with crayons...gotta luv Travis' burgundy jacket...and the flag with two red bars...

One of three...
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:32 pm

I believe the eighteen pounder didn't go there...

Two of three...
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:34 pm

Got the Travis/Dickenson photo reversed and can you believe the outfit color combo's on the group hug picture...

Three of three...
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:16 pm

Yuchhhhh! They are worse than the French tinting of the B&W stills!!! And the mirrored images are unforgivable. That is the one thing I hate about movie publicizing: the indiscriminate reversing of photos just so the composition balances the overall work. Even Batjac's classy lobby book does this!
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Rob on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:11 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Yuchhhhh! They are worse than the French tinting of the B&W stills!!! And the mirrored images are unforgivable. That is the one thing I hate about movie publicizing: the indiscriminate reversing of photos just so the composition balances the overall work. Even Batjac's classy lobby book does this!

So, let me get this straight Rich, you don't believe that Travis and Dickinson were actually left-handed, and that the publicist was just trying to make this point...or that there were lime green raccoons running around Tennessee? :D
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Seguin on Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:36 am

MartyB wrote:I believe the eighteen pounder didn't go there...

Two of three...


And Crockett smoking a cigarette wearing his Crockett clothes! :roll: At least that´s what it must look like to people who saw the lobby card before watching the movie. :D
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:53 am

That flag looks like the Canadian flag without the maple leaf. And with so much colorful clothing in those long shots, it looks more like Haight-Ashbury in the 60's.

Travis: Men, Jim Bonham has brought us news as sad as death.

Alamo defender: Oh wow, far out, man.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:11 am

Hahahahaha! Yeah, man!
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:06 am

More 'hand tinted'...better but color photographs would have been better...

Number 1
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:07 am

Number 2
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:54 am

Just noticed in the ensemble photo in front of the chapel that Partick Wayne is not there.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby gh1836 on Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:55 pm

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:Just noticed in the ensemble photo in front of the chapel that Partick Wayne is not there.


If I remember right the Parson is not there too.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MUSTANG on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:07 pm

Both Patrick and Hank had already finished their respective scenes by then and had returned to California.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:30 am

Not only was Jocko seen riding out of San Antonio with Sam Houston in THE ALAMO, he was also seen with Lord Chelmsford's' column
at Rorke's Drift in ZULU DAWN! :o
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:43 pm

That man sure do get around.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby mrbassbone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:11 pm

Let's hope Jocko has a better weapon.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:33 am

TexianAtHeartII wrote:That flag looks like the Canadian flag without the maple leaf.


Image
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:15 am

MartyB wrote:More 'hand tinted'...better but color photographs would have been better...

All these hand-tinted are of course black & white "glossies," which were the standard for movie still coverage back then. The Alamo and other epics (I believe) were the beginning of also shooting color transparencies, either 35mm. or 3.5 x 4.5, which were sent to high profile magazines and newspapers in the press kits. (Where's Ashley when ya need him? :lol: )
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:17 am

K Hale wrote:
TexianAtHeartII wrote:That flag looks like the Canadian flag without the maple leaf.


Image

"We stand here, ready to shop in that store! If there is anybody who doesn't like our flag, he can leaf."
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:45 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:
TexianAtHeartII wrote:That flag looks like the Canadian flag without the maple leaf.


Image

"We stand here, ready to shop in that store! If there is anybody who doesn't like our flag, he can leaf."


Ahh, nice that you put a picture of a place that has my last name on it. Wish I could say that I'm related to ole Tim, but I'm not. Unfortunately, Tim Horton has been gone for many years, but the restaurants that bear his name still exist, 40+ yrs later. Great hockey player. They used to be strictly in Canada. One time, my son and I were in one across the border from Detroit. My son asked the clerk, "if your last name is Horton, can you get a free donut"? Clerk smiled, and said. "no". So he bought one.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:33 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:
TexianAtHeartII wrote:That flag looks like the Canadian flag without the maple leaf.


Image

"We stand here, ready to shop in that store! If there is anybody who doesn't like our flag, he can leaf."

Not a store but even better: A Canadian donut palace! Image
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:34 am

TexianAtHeartII wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:Image

"We stand here, ready to shop in that store! If there is anybody who doesn't like our flag, he can leaf."


Ahh, nice that you put a picture of a place that has my last name on it. Wish I could say that I'm related to ole Tim, but I'm not. Unfortunately, Tim Horton has been gone for many years, but the restaurants that bear his name still exist, 40+ yrs later. Great hockey player. They used to be strictly in Canada. One time, my son and I were in one across the border from Detroit. My son asked the clerk, "if your last name is Horton, can you get a free donut"? Clerk smiled, and said. "no". So he bought one.

I just thought it went well with the flag. LOL. Did not know that was also your name!
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:10 am

All up and down I-75 for the snowbirds from Michigan and Ontario who go down to Florida for the winter!
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:13 am

MUSTANG wrote:All up and down I-75 for the snowbirds from Michigan and Ontario who go down to Florida for the winter!

Watch it, John. You saw that smiley. Kristi'll kill for a Canadian donut! ;)
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:34 am

Speaking of hand-tinted stills...

Laurence Golbey hand-tinted this black and white movie still for me.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Certainly more pleasant than those garish ones.... if pleasant means what I think it do.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MUSTANG on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:38 am

If you've never had a donut from Tim Horton's, you've missed one of life's greatest pleasures.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby cc nolen on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:02 pm

Had a good day of TV yesterday on Sunday...Good NFL Football, then John Wayne's Alamo followed by 2004 Alamo on Encore Westerns....very enjoyable.
Did notice one strange thing in Alamo 1960. When Beekeeper starts his song, Here's to the Ladys, he is sitting with a guitar and a dancer in his lap. You pan to the street then a quick look back in the Cantina - and Beekeeper is leaning against the bar :o - then back to the street, then back in where Beekeeper is finishing his song with girl still in his lap! :lol: Dat Rascal sho am fast!!!
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