Waynamo Bloopers

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:42 pm

JB BOOKS wrote:I still can't figure out how, during the heat of a last stand, you're supposed to know which half of the men you're supposed to be in when "half of you" is ordered to throw up a barricade, and which half of you is supposed to stay on and defend the barricade that's already there.

Shirts-and-skins?
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:23 pm

Don't blame me. Blame Ned. He asked me to post this stuff. :lol: :lol: :lol: Just kidding, Ned.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby fespar on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:35 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
Doc wrote:Just a thought why Irish's drawing of the large Mexican cannon may have sprouted spokes in the wheel. If you notice Irish as he draws in the dust, he seems to be creating a rather large phallis. Perhaps someone noticed this from Travis' porch and decided to disguise it a bit.
I have a question though, on a completely different topic (thank God). Was Lightfoot originally travelling with Houston on the way to San Antonio? He seemed to know exactly how many rump bustin' miles was covered and that Houston hadn't eaten since yesterday. Was Lightfoot sent on ahead and reassigned to Travis?

I'm afraid the farthest anybody probably worked on the "why" and "when" of the film was by saying that Andy Jackson's (Charlton Heston) sidekick (Spivey?) in The Buccaneer mothered him about food, so Lightfoot in The Alamo was assigned to do the same for Boone's Houston. In other words, I believe The Alamo (at least in this instance) was feeding more off of other similar movie gimmicks than trying to make logic out of the continuity or -- God forbid -- put some history on the screen.


Andy Jackson's side-kick was named Mr.Peavey.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby JB BOOKS on Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:55 pm

We are able to point out the bloopers because we love the movie.

I wish we could go back and delete some pieces of dialog here and there, but most especially the idea of a baby shaving.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Roark on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:46 am

Here's one that I wouldn't mind seeing edited. Can you imagine Davy Crockett saying,


"I'm gonna tell you something, Flaca, and I want you to listen tight. May sound like I'm talkin' about me. But I'm not. I'm talkin' about you. As a matter of fact, I'm talkin' about all people everywhere. When I come down here to Texas, I was lookin' for somethin'. I didn't know what. Seems like you added up my life and I spent it all either stompin' other men or, in some cases, gettin' stomped. Had me some money and had me some medals. But none of it seemed a lifetime worth of the pain of the mother that bore me. It was like I was empty. Well, I'm not empty anymore. That's what's important, to feel useful in this old world, to hit a lick against what's wrong for what's right even though you get walloped for saying that word. Now I may sound like a Bible beater yelling up a revival at a river crossing camp meeting, but that don't change the truth none. There's right and there's wrong. You got to do one or the other. You do the one and you're living. You do the other and you may be walking around, but you're dead as a beaver hat."


This is pure Wayne and what the heck. It was his movie. But Crockett saying " I want you to listen tight"....





JB BOOKS wrote:We are able to point out the bloopers because we love the movie.

I wish we could go back and delete some pieces of dialog here and there, but most especially the idea of a baby shaving.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby JB BOOKS on Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:08 pm

Roark wrote:Here's one that I wouldn't mind seeing edited. Can you imagine Davy Crockett saying,

"I'm gonna tell you something, Flaca, and I want you to listen tight. May sound like I'm talkin' about me. But I'm not. I'm talkin' about you. As a matter of fact, I'm talkin' about all people everywhere. When I come down here to Texas, I was lookin' for somethin'. I didn't know what. Seems like you added up my life and I spent it all either stompin' other men or, in some cases, gettin' stomped. Had me some money and had me some medals. But none of it seemed a lifetime worth of the pain of the mother that bore me. It was like I was empty. Well, I'm not empty anymore. That's what's important, to feel useful in this old world, to hit a lick against what's wrong for what's right even though you get walloped for saying that word. Now I may sound like a Bible beater yelling up a revival at a river crossing camp meeting, but that don't change the truth none. There's right and there's wrong. You got to do one or the other. You do the one and you're living. You do the other and you may be walking around, but you're dead as a beaver hat."



I don't think a proper Spanish lady would have the name "Flaca," or "Skinny," that Crockett had either money or medals, or that "dead as a beaver hat" was a phrase in much circulation; but the "You got to do one or the other" part seems to ring true.

Did Grant actually write the two speeches ("Republic," and "Listen Tight") or was it Wayne?
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:19 pm

JB BOOKS wrote:
Roark wrote:Here's one that I wouldn't mind seeing edited. Can you imagine Davy Crockett saying,

"I'm gonna tell you something, Flaca, and I want you to listen tight. May sound like I'm talkin' about me. But I'm not. I'm talkin' about you. As a matter of fact, I'm talkin' about all people everywhere. When I come down here to Texas, I was lookin' for somethin'. I didn't know what. Seems like you added up my life and I spent it all either stompin' other men or, in some cases, gettin' stomped. Had me some money and had me some medals. But none of it seemed a lifetime worth of the pain of the mother that bore me. It was like I was empty. Well, I'm not empty anymore. That's what's important, to feel useful in this old world, to hit a lick against what's wrong for what's right even though you get walloped for saying that word. Now I may sound like a Bible beater yelling up a revival at a river crossing camp meeting, but that don't change the truth none. There's right and there's wrong. You got to do one or the other. You do the one and you're living. You do the other and you may be walking around, but you're dead as a beaver hat."



I don't think a proper Spanish lady would have the name "Flaca," or "Skinny," that Crockett had either money or medals, or that "dead as a beaver hat" was a phrase in much circulation; but the "You got to do one or the other" part seems to ring true.

Did Grant actually write the two speeches ("Republic," and "Listen Tight") or was it Wayne?



I think that it would've been more appropriate had Crockett given that speech to his Tennesseans, instead of to Flaca.
Having Flaca write him that stupid letter was, well...just stupid.

Of course, then we would never have seen Linda Cristal in this scene by the river. Oh wait a minute. We didn't.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Rick on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:35 pm

JB BOOKS wrote:
Did Grant actually write the two speeches ("Republic," and "Listen Tight") or was it Wayne?

Ask Mustang. He'll know.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:52 am

It's in Grant's screenplay. He sure did. And Duke's speech to Becky in McLintock. And Duke's poetic discourse about his Indian wife in Hondo.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:55 am

In my view, Grant's three monologues in The Alamo are not created equal. I give his "Republic" speech a 60, his "Listen tight" seech an 85 and his "Ready, willing and able" speech a full 100.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby findem_killem on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:05 am

This may have been discussed at an earlier time but the "Listen Tight" speech was a personal statement about the movie. Listen to the words and apply them to Wayne and the movie and you will get an insight about his personal feelings regarding the making of The Alamo. Flaca was just a convenient prop.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby wconly on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:13 am

findem_killem wrote:This may have been discussed at an earlier time but the "Listen Tight" speech was a personal statement about the movie. Listen to the words and apply them to Wayne and the movie and you will get an insight about his personal feelings regarding the making of The Alamo. Flaca was just a convenient prop.

Convenient? Perhaps. But, 'prop?' No way Josie!!!!!! If that's a prop, then I am definitely getting into 'collecting props! :lol: ! W>
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby JB BOOKS on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:14 pm

Nefarious wrote:I think that it would've been more appropriate had Crockett given that speech to his Tennesseans, instead of to Flaca.
Having Flaca write him that stupid letter was, well...just stupid.

Of course, then we would never have seen Linda Cristal in this scene by the river. Oh wait a minute. We didn't.


In light of that picture, do pasear mean what I think it do?
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:28 pm

I don't know about you but there's some mighty pretty limbs in that picture. I'm a nature lover.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:06 am

findem_killem wrote:This may have been discussed at an earlier time but the "Listen Tight" speech was a personal statement about the movie. Listen to the words and apply them to Wayne and the movie and you will get an insight about his personal feelings regarding the making of The Alamo. Flaca was just a convenient prop.

I love it and it has indeed become memorable for me. It's just very bad filmmaking. If you've created a good film, you don't need to explain it in the dialogue -- and should NEVER preach.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby JB BOOKS on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:21 am

I recited it verbatim and almost got thrown out of the car by teenagers. I was driving, too. Kids today.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Roark on Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:05 pm

No question Crockett is pure Wayne. Since I am fan of his, I like Wayne's style and look forward to it in his movies. It's there in Stagecoach. It's there in They Were Expendable and Red River. It's there all through the cavalry trilogy and The Searchers. It's there at the end in The Shootist. Along the way, as John Ford found out, Wayne learned to act.


RLC-GTT wrote:
findem_killem wrote:This may have been discussed at an earlier time but the "Listen Tight" speech was a personal statement about the movie. Listen to the words and apply them to Wayne and the movie and you will get an insight about his personal feelings regarding the making of The Alamo. Flaca was just a convenient prop.

I love it and it has indeed become memorable for me. It's just very bad filmmaking. If you've created a good film, you don't need to explain it in the dialogue -- and should NEVER preach.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:22 am

JB BOOKS wrote:I recited it verbatim and almost got thrown out of the car by teenagers. I was driving, too. Kids today.

Is it because you called them Flaca?
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby wconly on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:13 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
JB BOOKS wrote:I recited it verbatim and almost got thrown out of the car by teenagers. I was driving, too. Kids today.

Is it because you called them Flaca?

:shock: 8-) :lol: ! W>
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby Seguin on Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:40 am

If you've created a good film, you don't need to explain it in the dialogue -- and should NEVER preach.


Right! The audience never take kindly to being preached for. Take the "Republic speech" for instance. It´s been made a lot of fun of over the years because it´s so preachy and too full of pathos. There was no need to explain to the audience that a republic is better than a dictatorship, because that goes without saying. Of course, it was made during the cold war, but still.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:06 pm

Seguin wrote:
If you've created a good film, you don't need to explain it in the dialogue -- and should NEVER preach.


Right! The audience never take kindly to being preached for. Take the "Republic speech" for instance. It´s been made a lot of fun of over the years because it´s so preachy and too full of pathos. There was no need to explain to the audience that a republic is better than a dictatorship, because that goes without saying. Of course, it was made during the cold war, but still.

There is, of course, something to be said for communitcating the character's beliefs, but there again, don't preach. The screenwriter should not preach to the audience, and the character should not preach to the audience either. In JLH's The Alamo, does anybody have any question that Travis "Believes" when Joe follows him into his quarters after his speech and sees him facing a cross. He removes his hat and bows his head. We GET it! No need for a whole Sunday school class on believing or not believing.

My rating of Crockett's three "speeches" in John Wayne's The Alamo was based on preaching or not preaching.

"Republic" bites the dust. It is screenwriter making his character tell the audience how they should believe.

The "Flaca" speech has more filmic credibility with me, but it still turns into preaching as Duke/Davy/Jimmie Grant explains to Flaca and, supposedly, a dumb ignorant audience, "There's right and there's wrong. Ya gotta do one or the other."

Crockett's "Ready, willing and able" discourse is a success. He is revealing his character by telling Flaca what he will do for her -- not how she (or we) should feel or believe. It is pure chivalry. This puts it in a class with Wayne's (Jimmie Grant's) speech to Becky in McClintock. ;)
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby cc nolen on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:54 pm

Good report! It'll go on your record....maybe make sargent in 10 or 12 yrs! :shock:
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:20 am

All this doesn't mean I don't like the material. I know them all by heart and love the sentiments. It just flies in the face of quality filmmaking -- then as well as now -- and I'm afraid it had a lot to do with the critical bashes the film received.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby wconly on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:07 am

RLC-GTT wrote:All this doesn't mean I don't like the material. I know them all by heart and love the sentiments. It just flies in the face of quality filmmaking -- then as well as now -- and I'm afraid it had a lot to do with the critical bashes the film received.

As much as I would like to disagree with you, I cannot, because you are absolutely correct! But, and this is a big one...for some strange reason, 'it' "The Alamo" would not have been the same without these long, speeches! It is all, a great dialogue of the 'times,' in which the film was made. And, when one thinks about it, people (back in those 'days,' (1830's, etc.) did have a habit of 'preaching!') Just my two cents. Maybe, in 'it's,' own way, it made perfect sense to Wayne to do it this way. Heck, as a child, I thought it was a bit overboard, but it surly did make me think. I believe that sometimes, we need to forgive the 'art' of what is considered correct in filmmaking and life, in general, and look to the 'intent' behind the delivery of said! Again: Just my two cents. But, to me, the picture, would have suffered, without it ;) . W>
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:34 am

Personally, I dislike being bludgeoned with plot points, or anything else. If anything, err on the side of less. I'd rather wonder "What was that supposed to mean?" than be hit over the head with stuff.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:44 am

K Hale wrote:Personally, I dislike being bludgeoned with plot points, or anything else. If anything, err on the side of less. I'd rather wonder "What was that supposed to mean?" than be hit over the head with stuff.

"Buck. Did it matter?''
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby JB BOOKS on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:42 am

I don't consider the "Ready, willing and able" thing in the same class as the other two, because it's a direct statement of intent and almost a piece of action itself. It also fits in with the tenor of the times, and shows off (the Wayne) Crockett's sophistication. He has learned a lot Congressifyin, including the gentlemanly honor code and how to make oneself available for the protection of women and children-- how to articulate it. If the Republic and Beaver Hat speeches had the same quality of reflecting the times and setting up the Crockett character to demonstrate why he must take responsibility for others' welfare, they would not grate on the nerves the way they do.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:03 am

Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote:Personally, I dislike being bludgeoned with plot points, or anything else. If anything, err on the side of less. I'd rather wonder "What was that supposed to mean?" than be hit over the head with stuff.

"Buck. Did it matter?''

Case in point. I'm still not sure what that meant. Could be a couple of things. There are several scenes like that. Scenes that take thinkin' on.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:42 pm

K Hale wrote:
Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote:Personally, I dislike being bludgeoned with plot points, or anything else. If anything, err on the side of less. I'd rather wonder "What was that supposed to mean?" than be hit over the head with stuff.

"Buck. Did it matter?''

Case in point. I'm still not sure what that meant. Could be a couple of things. There are several scenes like that. Scenes that take thinkin' on.

There was a long discussion about this line from THE ALAMO (2004) on the old thealamofilm site. My take on it was, did it really matter who was in command of the Texian forces at the Alamo at that point in time? Seems that Bowie and Travis had fought over it for a good deal of their screen time.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:38 pm

My thoughts on the issue...James Edward Grant was 'John Wayne'...and I enjoy the hell out of most of they're collaborative efforts...In 1945, Grant had moved from MGM over to Warner Brothers and became close friends with John Wayne. Wayne, who, over the previous five years, had ascended to his own unique brand of action stardom, mostly at Republic Pictures was taking a closer interest than was typical among actors in the quality of the movie scripts he was offered, and wanted to safeguard the stardom that had finally become his with John Ford's Stagecoach… Wayne decided to take advantage of a clause in his contract that allowed him to produce movies and use Grant.

The result was “Angel and the Badman’...Grant wrote the story and was chosen by Wayne to direct the movie, and the result was one of the most interesting, complex and rewarding of Wayne's early starring vehicles not directed by John Ford…It was a success, and launched Wayne's career as a producer. Grant and Wayne collaborated on 11 more projects over the next 19 years. Although Grant was not involved in the writing of most of the films that Ford made with Wayne, he was responsible for “Flying Leathernecks” (1951), “Big Jim McLain” (1952), “Trouble Along the Way”, and “Hondo” (both 1953)…”Hondo” was based on a Louis L'Amour short story…When L’Amour read the grant dialog he incorporated it into a novel produced in conjunction with the movie…Grant and Wayne were personally very close drinking buddies who played chess all the time (with Grant reportedly never winning a game in 19 years).

Grant had Wayne's ear when it came to dialogue…Wayne was reportedly convinced that, outside of the writers used by Ford in his films, Grant wrote the best dialogue he ever had to work with, and understood exactly what Wayne's fans wanted from the actor.

Unfortunately…Grant wrote strong parts for Wayne and other actors, but he tended to write relatively weak roles for women, and that mix worked in most of the dozen movies he did with Wayne. Grant reportedly knew exactly what Wayne wanted to hear, and was, in a sense, the ultimate sycophant/employee. According to director Frank Capra in his autobiography, in their contact over the filmmaker's abortive involvement with the movie Circus World (1964), Grant took pride in having helped persuade Wayne to stop making movies with Ford -- in doing this, however, he may have overplayed his hand as the actor's friend. Grant contributed greatly to The Alamo (1960) with his ‘Republic Speech’ (the idiotic fake) 'Santa Anna Letter' and the ‘Flaca Speech’, as well as “The Comancheros” (1961), and worked on a Ford production the following year with “Donovan's Reef”…

When Wayne needed to get his production company out of the hole it had dug with immense cost of The Alamo, he turned to Grant. The result was McLintock! (1963), a deceptively complex and serious comedy, which proved the most profitable of all of Wayne's 1960s releases.

“ McLintock!” proved to be the ‘swan song’ for Grant's major influence on Wayne's career. By 1964, while contending with his own health problems, Wayne had come to recognize Grant's weaknesses, personal and otherwise; the man was obviously an alcoholic and was in declining health, and was becoming something of a burden… However, Wayne never objected to the ideological statements that Grant put into his dialogue for him, which, by the way, defined the actor for the rest of his life…

John Ford once told John Wayne that if a bit of dialog sounded 'corny', 'sappy' or 'maudlin' he was to play it with the utmost sincerity and the public would buy it...Ford and Grant both believed that and both were right...
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:52 pm

P.S. Speaking of preachy...James Lee Barrett is another writer in the vein of James Grant…His dialog can absolutely be totally preachy, corny and contrived…but I enjoy the hell out of it….


Shenandoah was without a doubt leaden with preachy, syrupy dialog…but it worked for me…

Examples…

1. Charlie Anderson saying grace : Lord, we cleared this land. We plowed it, sowed it, and harvest it. We cook the harvest. It wouldn't be here and we wouldn't be eating it if we hadn't done it all ourselves. We worked dog-bone hard for every crumb and morsel, but we thank you Lord just the same for the food we're about to eat, amen.

2. When a young Confederate picket has just shot one of Anderson's sons Anderson grabs the kid…
Charlie Anderson: How old are you? How old?
Young Picket: Sixteen.
Charlie Anderson: Six - Sixteen. I'm not gonna' kill you…I want you to live! I want you to live to be an old man…And I want you to have many... many, many children. And I want you to feel about your children then... the way I feel about mine now! And someday, when a man comes along and kills one of 'em, I want you to remember! I want you to remember.

3. Then…at the site of his wife's grave…

Charlie Anderson: I don't even know what to say to you any more, Martha. There's not much I can tell you about this war. It's like all wars, I guess. The undertakers are winning. And the politicians who talk about the glory of it. And the old men who talk about the need of it. And the soldiers, well, they just wanna go home. I guess you're not so lonely any more, with Ann and James and Jacob. And maybe the boy. You didn't know Ann, did you? Well, you'd like her. You'd like her, Martha. Why, she and James are so much alike, they're just like... no... no... we were never that much alike, were we Martha? We just sorta grew alike through the years. But I wish, I wish I could just know what you're thinking about it all, Martha. And maybe it wouldn't seem so bad to me if I knew what you thought about it.
[He notices the church bells are ringing]
Charlie Anderson: You never give up, do you?


We of the ‘John Wayne Generation’ love good preachin'….
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:29 pm

No problem with the "preaching," whether Grant putting words in John Wayne's mouth or Barrett doing the same for Jimmy Stewart (Barrett was a Penn Stater too! ;) ). I'm just saying it isn't the best filmmaking -- and, with today's audiences, it crashes and burns.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:48 pm

You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.
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K Hale
 
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 pm

K Hale wrote:You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.

In "The Comedy Of Terrors", Basil Rathbone chases Peter Lorre around with a sword while reciting "MacBeth."
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:07 pm

Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote:You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.

In "The Comedy Of Terrors", Basil Rathbone chases Peter Lorre around with a sword while reciting "MacBeth."

I loved that spoof.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:10 pm

K Hale wrote:You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.

Oh, in Gods and Generals. I thought you meant Gettysburg.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby K Hale on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:50 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.

Oh, in Gods and Generals. I thought you meant Gettysburg.

Gettysburg was pretty much speech-free, at least as compared to G&G.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:53 am

K Hale wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:
K Hale wrote:You could always do like Ron Maxwell and have them stand around reciting Shakespeare. Speaking of movies that crashed and burned.

Oh, in Gods and Generals. I thought you meant Gettysburg.

Gettysburg was pretty much speech-free, at least as compared to G&G.

Therein lies the reason I like Gettysburg tremendously and was bored stiff by Gods and Generals.
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:27 am

RLC-GTT wrote:No problem with the "preaching," whether Grant putting words in John Wayne's mouth or Barrett doing the same for Jimmy Stewart (Barrett was a Penn Stater too! ;) ). I'm just saying it isn't the best filmmaking -- and, with today's audiences, it crashes and burns.


I agree about the differences between 'Gettysburg' and 'Gods and Generals'...I also agree that some of the dialogue in question 'crashes and burns' with today's audiences...but we part company on old fashioned dialogue not being the best film making...Some of 'The Alamo' is bad film making but the speeches really aren't to me...i even liked the dialogue dealing with the existence of God...Remember........"I say this, I believe. I can never find a way to argue down you that don’t believe, but I believe in the Lord God Almighty, all knowing and all forgiving. And I believe that Good shall be triumphant in the end and that evil shall be vanquished."

John Wayne is almost an American Myth…as with any mythology the individuals of the story must meet certain criteria of characterization…and his speeches (dialogue) are essential to his character…

Movies today have degenerated from an ‘art and entertainment form’ to a ‘visual and adolescent vulgarity gratification form’…Not only is Wayne’s ‘old’ dialogue ‘hokey’ and ‘old fashioned’ so are the scripted lines of the old heroes like Cooper, Stewart, Fonda, Cary Grant, Bogart, and even Randolph Scott…These actors and their movies were wildly popular because they told good stories but they also articulated the code of right verses wrong through both actions and words…Words were important…They meant something…Often the stars gave ‘statements’ that would be considered preachy…People wanted things stated…things said…Also you got a lot more (without vulgarity) from John Wayne saying “That’ll be the day” than you got from Bruce Willis’s “Yippie Ki Yay M***F***!”

By the time Wayne made the Alamo I think he felt it was time and probably his only opportunity to ‘state’ his beliefs (preach as it were)…So he did…I can’t help it…I like the sound of the word Republic…I want to live my life to justify the pain my Mother went through giving me birth…to do something worth while in this world…
I didn’t just ‘enjoy’ those speeches…I ‘needed’ ‘em

It might not be called good movie making today…but if ‘audience attractive’ dialogue was the precedent in making a movie then Shakespeare movies would never get made…

Some comments that the Duke made about movie making…

“I'm glad I won't be around much longer to see what they do with it. The men who control the big studios today are stock manipulators and bankers. They know nothing about our business. They're in it for the buck. The only thing they can do is say, "Jeez, that picture with what's-her-name running around the park naked made money, so let's make another one…Some of these guys remind me of high-class whores...As much as I couldn't stand some of the old-time moguls - especially Harry Cohn - these men took an interest in the future of their business. They had integrity…But today's executives don't give a damn…they're producing garbage.

Every time they rate a picture, they let a little more go. Ratings are ridiculous to begin with. There was no need for rated pictures when the major studios were in control. Movies were once made for the whole family. Now, with the kind of junk the studios are cranking out-and the jacked-up prices they're charging for the privilege of seeing it - the average family is staying home and watching television.… I'm very conscious that people criticize Hollywood.

Yet we've created a form, the Western, that can be understood in every country. The good guys against the bad guys. No nuances. And the horse is the best vehicle of action in our medium. You take action, a scene, and scenery, and cut them together, and you never miss. Action, scene, scenery. But when you think about the Western - ones I've made, for example. "Stagecoach", "Red River", "The Searchers", a picture named "Hondo" that had a little depth to it - it's an American art form. It represents what this country is about. In "True Grit", for example, that scene where Rooster shoots the rat. That was a kind of reference to today's problems. Oh, not that True Grit has a message or anything. But that scene was about less accommodation, and more justice. They keep bringing up the fact that America's for the downtrodden. But this new thing of genuflecting to the downtrodden, I don't go along with that. We ought to go back to praising the kids who get good grades, instead of making excuses for the ones who shoot the neighborhood grocery man…”

Then there is this…

“Once I was working in a movie with Harry Carey and his wife Olive [Olive Carey], and I was complaining about being typed. "Duke," Ollie said, "look at Harry over there - would you like to see Harry Carey play any other way?". "Of course not," I said. "Well," Ollie said, "the American public doesn't want to see you any other way, either. So wake up, Duke! Be what they want you to be." See, I'm not against Women's Lib. Ollie gave me some real good advice.”




Sorry…didn’t mean to preach…………………..
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Marty Brazil
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Re: Waynamo Bloopers

Postby MartyB on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:10 pm

Hummmm....

Did ya notice the two defenders on top of the Long Barracks 'scared stiff' during the 1st assault...
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