THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

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THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:52 pm

The Director's Cut of The Waynamo; talk about it here.

It is high time for a Director's cut of THE ALAMO to come out on DVD. MGM/UA has the complete Director's cut on both VHS and
laser disc and it would be a simple thing to transfer either to DVD format.

Bill Chemerka had this to say on page 12 of the September, 2008 issue #150 of THE ALAMO JOURNAL, the official publication of the
Alamo Society.

DVD Director's Cit of "The Alamo"

There's a chance that a US DVD Director's Cut of John Wayne's The Alamo will be produced.
But only after a bit of prodding.
Here's what Michigan's Brian Gibson is proposing:
"I got the idea from the June issue of 'The Alamo Journal' to contact Wayne Enterprises," said
Gibson. I phoned them after viewing the Wayne Enterprises website. The people were very
nice and grateful. They told me they would start a written list of all who contacted them or
sent an e-mail requesting a DVD version of Wayne's Director's cut of the film."

Contact Wayne Enterprises at 210 62nd St., Newport Beach, CA 92663 or wayneenterprises.com
or (949) 631-8411.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:00 pm

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DVD cover of the Hong Kong Director's Cut of THE ALAMO, obviously lifted from the MGM/UA laser disc. While the film itself is intact, due to
time and space constraint on the single disc, there is no intermission music, or Brian Huberman documentary included. Still, better than
nothing---for now.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby AlamoAl on Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:55 am

I did not realise there was a director's cut on DVD at all. :o I did what was said in the last Alamo Journal I called and gave em what fur. :shock: They were very nice but didn't understand a single thing I said. :roll:
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:31 am

AlamoAl wrote:I did not realise there was a director's cut on DVD at all. :o


Wal, most of them Hong Kong DVDs are of a'spicious origin: Translation---bootleg.

Fiddle! Yor on the forum bar'ly one day and I be already talkin' like ye! :? :lol:
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Reb_Al on Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:05 am

I was fortunate to have been able to make my own. I copied it from my laser disc although the quality isn't as good as the original it's certainly watchable until the genuine one comes along.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:59 am

Image
After the 70mm Director's Cut print was found in Canada, MGM/UA had it transferred onto laser disc
and VHS tape. The film itself was then cut up into long strips, soaked in a chemical solution to 'preserve'
it, then left inside a baking warehouse with no heat control. Here's what the cooked print looks like today.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:50 am

Jezuz! What a horrible sight. So all there´s left is the video and laser disc print, I guess. Now all they need to do is making a 2-DVD release with the full movie and the full documentary. Perhaps at the 50th anniversary in 2010.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:35 pm

Seguin wrote:Jezuz! What a horrible sight. So all there´s left is the video and laser disc print, I guess. Now all they need to do is making a 2-DVD release with the full movie and the full documentary. Perhaps at the 50th anniversary in 2010.



Yes they should. But the point that both RIch Curilla and Frank Thompson would have us all realize is that the best medium for saving a film is the film itself. VHS master tapes and DVDs have a very short lifespan. What we consider 'permanent', is actually the mere blink of an eye, film history-wise. Tape and DVD fade, but a well preserved film should be able to last another 200 years.

Another point is that some films were just made to be seen in 70mm widescreen glory and Wayne's THE ALAMO is one of them. No matter how large of a TV screen you have, how magnifacent your home theatre sound system is, it will never match the experience of seeing that towering epic on a towering screen with an audience surrounding you that is completely blown away and breathless.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:27 pm

Nefarious wrote:
Seguin wrote:Jezuz! What a horrible sight. So all there´s left is the video and laser disc print, I guess. Now all they need to do is making a 2-DVD release with the full movie and the full documentary. Perhaps at the 50th anniversary in 2010.



Yes they should. But the point that both RIch Curilla and Frank Thompson would have us all realize is that the best medium for saving a film is the film itself. VHS master tapes and DVDs have a very short lifespan. What we consider 'permanent', is actually the mere blink of an eye, film history-wise. Tape and DVD fade, but a well preserved film should be able to last another 200 years.

Another point is that some films were just made to be seen in 70mm widescreen glory and Wayne's THE ALAMO is one of them. No matter how large of a TV screen you have, how magnifacent your home theatre sound system is, it will never match the experience of seeing that towering epic on a towering screen with an audience surrounding you that is completely blown away and breathless.


I agree! But in this case it´s too late. I hope what happened to The Alamo film, will be a lesson for future film preservasionists!
Now they´ll have to make back up copies of the video tape and laser disc versions pretty often untill a better storing method can be found.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:41 pm

I believe that the price tag for restoring the film to its former glory is $6000,000. That's a frame by frame colour restoration and new negative.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:04 pm

Yes, I remember reading something like that, although I thought it would only cost 1-2 millions. Maybe I can find the article again somewhere.
Since the original film needs being restored, does that mean it can´t be shown in theaters anymore, unless the use the laser disc version?
Maybe they could create a new film from the Laser disc version? It won´t be quite the same, of course, but this film need to be restored in some way.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Davy on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:07 pm

Nefarious wrote:I believe that the price tag for restoring the film to its former glory is $6000,000. That's a frame by frame colour restoration and new negative.



Thats not much if you say it fast enuff! :twisted:

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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:27 pm

Seguin, your estimate is much closer to the mark than mine was. In this attached article from a John Wayne website, it is discussed how MGM/UA agreed to kick in $500,000 towards the restoration effort, but that restorers estimated that they would need at least $650,000 more to get the job done.

http://www.jwayne.com/news/archives/00000028.shtml
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:29 pm

Also, here is the article I believe you mentioned:

www.in70mm.com/news/2002/alamo/index.htm
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:46 pm

Nefarious wrote:Also, here is the article I believe you mentioned:

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2002/alamo/index.htm


Yes, this is the article! Thanks! I wonder if The Alamo will ever be restored when I read stuff like this in the article:

"The Alamo" hardly ranks among Wayne's best films; it's overwrought, lethargic and jingoistic to the point where its history isn't even accurate.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:05 pm

There they go, harping about history. A film should move, inspire and, above all, entertain its audience. The Waynamo accomplishes all three of these points and yet remains the most entertaining Alamo film to date. (In my opinion, anyhow.)
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:19 pm

There must be a lot of others who think the same cause MGM sure has made many a dollar off of it. If this ever comes about it would make it the fourth time of repacking it beginninng with the CBS/FOX VHS.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:41 pm

You mean the Beta one, Ron, with the photo of Travis' orderly blowing a bugle on its box cover?
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:42 pm

I´m sure they could sell a lot of copies at the 50th anniversary in 2010, if they would spend the necessary money on promoting a new directors cut, including the complete 60 min. documentary, and perhaps even include the TV special, "Spirits of The Alamo", too...
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:48 am

That's correct Ned. I bought it in BETA then in VHS then again when it was totted as restored and only music was added then again I finally got what should have been there from the beginning, LBX Director's Cut Laser edition with everything except 'Spirit of the Alamo'. I copied it to DVD just to get the idea. That's a few dollars of mine MGM got and I reckon they'll get me again if'n they do it on DVD. I quess I like this movie a little.
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RESTORATION OF THE ALAMO

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:23 am

Here is a quote from Robert Harris, the film archivist who, several years ago, was trying to restore The Alamo. It is from an interview by Peter Sobczynski posted on http://www.hollywoodbitchslap.com on 9/28/08.

Question:
If you were given the proper amount of time and money, what are the needy films out there that you would most like to work on in order to bring them back to their former luster?

Robert Harris' answer:
“The Alamo,” [the 1960 version directed by John Wayne] which can no longer really be printed. It has been cut, the negative is faded and chemically damaged and the separation masters are cut and shrunken so that they cannot fit together. That was one of those films that I saw when I was 14 years old and to me, it is unimaginable that a film like that should not survive and be screenable in 70mm and in six-track stereo.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:50 pm

I just bought a copy of 'Superman II' the director's cut by Richard Donner. Quite different then what was released and better except for the ending which i won't spoil but if you have seen it you know why I said "excepting the ending".
My point is that another film from the past has been restored. "Major Dundee", "Lawrence of Arabia", "El Cid" etc, have all gotten funds from somebody. What's with Batjac???? There are still making money from anything Duke made. His films are being re-packaged, double featured, colorized and make money for somebody.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Reb_Al on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:41 pm

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:I just bought a copy of 'Superman II' the director's cut by Richard Donner. Quite different then what was released and better except for the ending which i won't spoil but if you have seen it you know why I said "excepting the ending".
My point is that another film from the past has been restored. "Major Dundee", "Lawrence of Arabia", "El Cid" etc, have all gotten funds from somebody. What's with Batjac???? There are still making money from anything Duke made. His films are being re-packaged, double featured, colorized and make money for somebody.



I totally agree I have three different copies of "Major Dundee" so it's about time something was done for "The Alamo".
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby RLC-GTT on Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:26 am

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:I just bought a copy of 'Superman II' the director's cut by Richard Donner. Quite different then what was released and better except for the ending which i won't spoil but if you have seen it you know why I said "excepting the ending".
My point is that another film from the past has been restored. "Major Dundee", "Lawrence of Arabia", "El Cid" etc, have all gotten funds from somebody. What's with Batjac???? There are still making money from anything Duke made. His films are being re-packaged, double featured, colorized and make money for somebody.


Batjac has nothing to do with The Alamo. MGM/UA owns it entirely.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:33 pm

I don't know why I forgot that little tidbit HOWEVER MGM/UA has made a bundle on this 40 year old film. Look at all those box covers on the other thread. That money went somewhere. I would guess that's almost a 60% profit. Can't cost that much for a new box.
How many of us have bought several versions of this epic??? It's got to be time for a DVD. We ain't gettin any younger and when we are all gone, who they gonna get to buy another new box cover?
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Davy on Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:49 am

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:I don't know why I forgot that little tidbit HOWEVER MGM/UA has made a bundle on this 40 year old film. Look at all those box covers on the other thread. That money went somewhere. I would guess that's almost a 60% profit. Can't cost that much for a new box.
How many of us have bought several versions of this epic??? It's got to be time for a DVD. We ain't gettin any younger and when we are all gone, who they gonna get to buy another new box cover?



Maybe we need ta saddle up & pay these fellers ah visit! :o

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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:20 am

Nefarious wrote:Here's what Michigan's Brian Gibson is proposing:
"I got the idea from the June issue of 'The Alamo Journal' to contact Wayne Enterprises," said
Gibson. I phoned them after viewing the Wayne Enterprises website. The people were very
nice and grateful. They told me they would start a written list of all who contacted them or
sent an e-mail requesting a DVD version of Wayne's Director's cut of the film."

Contact Wayne Enterprises at 210 62nd St., Newport Beach, CA 92663 or wayneenterprises.com
or (949) 631-8411.


Get out your pen and write, your computer and email, and your phone and call. Talkin' to the wall won't git the job done.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby MUSTANG on Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:56 am

I also contacted Gretchen Wayne directly: she's the President of Batjac. Who knows???
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:05 am

Hopefully, they´ll release the directors cut on DVD at the films 50th anniversary in 2010...
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Reb_Al on Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:29 pm

Fargo Fenwyck wrote:I don't know why I forgot that little tidbit HOWEVER MGM/UA has made a bundle on this 40 year old film. Look at all those box covers on the other thread. That money went somewhere. I would guess that's almost a 60% profit. Can't cost that much for a new box.
How many of us have bought several versions of this epic??? It's got to be time for a DVD. We ain't gettin any younger and when we are all gone, who they gonna get to buy another new box cover?


If they released the extended version on DVD they can keep the box I will just take the DVD. :)
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby AlamoAl on Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:11 am

I agree! ;) :) :D
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Davy on Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:01 am

AlamoAl wrote:I agree! ;) :) :D


Amen brothers! Amen! :lol:

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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:24 pm

Seguin wrote:Hopefully, they´ll release the directors cut on DVD at the films 50th anniversary in 2010...


Hopefully, they'll do a lot more.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:27 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
Seguin wrote:Hopefully, they´ll release the directors cut on DVD at the films 50th anniversary in 2010...


Hopefully, they'll do a lot more.


And I rather expect that, if Alamo04 has ANY value to the Mouse House, they'll take that as an opportunity to do SOMETHING with the movie! Blu-Ray, anyone? Director's cut? Cut it up for shot and send it back to them?
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Seguin on Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:32 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:
Seguin wrote:Hopefully, they´ll release the directors cut on DVD at the films 50th anniversary in 2010...


Hopefully, they'll do a lot more.


And I rather expect that, if Alamo04 has ANY value to the Mouse House, they'll take that as an opportunity to do SOMETHING with the movie! Blu-Ray, anyone? Director's cut? Cut it up for shot and send it back to them?


If there´s any money in it for the Rat House, they´ll probably do something! You know, where there´s money to be made... ;)
(I´ll prefer a Directors Cut to a Blu-Ray release any day!)
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:09 am

I received a reply from Gretchen Wayne and Batjac and her response was "You would have to check with MGM studios as they have the distribution rights." So either they're not involved OR they are unwilling to share what the involvement is. I hope it's the latter. It seems a shame that an opportunity such as this would be passed up.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:47 pm

I contacted Wayne Enterprises and have recieved no response even mentioning I'd like to see. 'The Barbarian and the Geisha' released on DVD. (I think it is a very interesting film watching Wayne out of his comfort zone) I don't know what they control but as Richard pointed out it's MGM/UA who have the say so on 'The Alamo'. Sadly for those who didn't have a Laser Copy I think that's all we're gonna get. I did copy mine to DVD. When they placed movies on Laser they really didn't put a lot into where to stop disc. Most of the time it was in the middle of a scene. Smitty's wound and Travis meeting Bowie's men as they are about to leave with Crockett.
'How The West Was Won' suffered same fate until this new version came out by Warners Home Video. I don't know how Warners got hold of an MGM biggie unless Warners holds the rights to the MGM/Ua library which I thought Turner owned as well as all the old MGM/UA films. There's an idea, contact Turner, he's into old films and he's got a few bucks.
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby mrbassbone on Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:10 pm

The following is somehting I got in the mail:

Newt's John Wayne Site

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 2009


Howdy Pilgrim.


I just wanted to update you on the happenings at Newt's John Wayne Site. CLICK HERE for a list of films starring John Wayne on TV showing in the near future. Not many Duke films on Turner Classic Movies (TCM) this month but here they are, CLICK HERE.



I hope everyone had a good holiday and let's hope 2009 is better with a new President and hopefully an improved economy. There are some rumors surfacing that MGM will release the complete director's cut of John Wayne's The Alamo (as previously available only on the special edition laserdisc) by mid-2009. This would be a delightful release for the film's devoted fans, so let's hope there's some truth to it, especially if a Blu-ray version is also in the works.


I have added a new page for one of John Wayne's co-stars, Pedro Gonzalez Gonzalez. He was signed by the Duke after seeing him on TV with Groucho Marx and he stayed on the Wayne company payroll until 1974. He was posthumously honored on November 14, 2008 with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame that was placed right next to the Duke's star. I have added a couple of videos on this page that I got from You Tube, one that chronicles his career and another one from Rio Bravo about being responsible.


With the new year just starting, it is time for another contest, the DVD Treasure Chest Giveaway. The Treasure Chest of DVDs is being emptied for this giveaway with 14 separate DVD prizes. Take your choice of those offered and enter and good luck.
As always, be assured that the email address you used to sign up for this mailing list will NEVER be sold or given to any other party, NOT EVER! Forward this newsletter to your friends that might be interested in the Duke or have them sign-up here.





Your comments or suggestions are always welcome and encouraged.


Later Pilgrim,
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:52 pm

mrbassbone wrote:The following is somehting I got in the mail:

Newt's John Wayne Site

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 2009


Howdy Pilgrim.


There are some rumors surfacing that MGM will release the complete director's cut of John Wayne's The Alamo (as previously available only on the special edition laserdisc) by mid-2009. This would be a delightful release for the film's devoted fans, so let's hope there's some truth to it, especially if a Blu-ray version is also in the works.




Sounds like the answer to a prayer. But if in-the-know movie folk like Frank Thompson and Joe Musso know nothing about it (they don't), then it probably t'aint so. As Merrill Connolly, as Davy Crockett says in ALAMO: THE PRICE OF FREEDOM, "Rumours have a way of turnin' prairie dogs into grizzly bears."
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Re: THE ALAMO (1960): The Director's Cut

Postby Reb_Al on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:51 am

I will believe it when I see it! :)
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