RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

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RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

Postby gtj222 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:39 am

This might be fun :D
For a project I am thinking about doing, here is a list of the top actors from 1950 through 1959. You are to cast the male (we will leave the females as is) lead roles in John Wayne's upcoming movie which he will direct. He wants to direct and play a cameo as Houston, but it is your choice if he will only direct or direct and play any of the lead roles. He will direct. Here is the list of the top stars and you pick who will play Travis, Bowie, Crockett, and Houston. James Cagney, Spencer Tracy and Humphrey Bogart are out because they were too old and Clark Gable is out because he died in November of 1959. REMEMBER NOT TV STARS...only the top movie stars listed. The top two considered for Smitty are the top two "young singing movie stars" of that period: Elvis and Pat Boone. James Dean is out because he died prior to production.
Here is the remainder of the list for Travis, Bowie, Crockett, and Houston in no particular order:
John Wayne
Jimmy Stewart
Henery Fonda
Robert Mitchum
Audie Murphy (maybe as Smitty)
James Mason
Montgomery Clift
Rock Hudson
Paul Newman
Burt Lancaster
Kirk Douglas
Tony Curtis
Gregory Peck
Charlton Heston
Marlon Brando
Lee J Cobb
Gary Cooper
Jeff Chandler
Yul Brynner
Glenn Ford
Randolf Scott
Alan Ladd
William Holder
Frank Sinatra
Cary Grant
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:05 am

Let me try this again. Bump!! :lol:
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby caplock on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:31 am

gtj222 wrote: The top two considered for Smitty are the top two "young singing movie stars" of that period: Elvis and Pat Boone. James Dean is out because he died prior to production.


A major problem here: Elvis was in the Army during production. Plus, both he and Pat Boone might have been big with the teenage audience, but both were too old to play Smitty.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Seguin on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:22 am

I´m considering Robert Mitchum as Bowie, and Heston or Brando as Travis. Crockett is a tough one. I would say Arthur Hunnicut, but he´s not on the list. Maybe Burt Lancaster then, because he could play serious parts too (see, "Elmer Gantry"). Henry Fonda might be a good option too. As for "young singing movie stars", I would rather be without. They have no place in an Alamo movie, so I´ll have to think of some young actor to play Smitty. Come to think of it, Lee J. Cobb could probably play a mean Bowie. Decisions, decisions... :D
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:14 pm

Bobby Darin as Smitty!!!! Lancaster/Crockett, Douglas/ Travis, Heston/Bowie. Wayne / Houston.
Nice idea. Maybe some computer guru could put it together.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:16 pm

caplock wrote:
gtj222 wrote: The top two considered for Smitty are the top two "young singing movie stars" of that period: Elvis and Pat Boone. James Dean is out because he died prior to production.

A major problem here: Elvis was in the Army during production. Plus, both he and Pat Boone might have been big with the teenage audience, but both were too old to play Smitty.


You are correct, Elvis was in the army at that time. So, maybe Rickey Nelson (he had done a movie with Duke), Pat Boone, or anybody popular at the time.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby zapadore on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:37 pm

If it were a Wayne production......and he wasn't starring but simply directing?......I would've looked at both Rip Torn & Andy Griffith to play Crockett. Holden,.....with proper make up,(no brylcremed hair, side burns)...some basic Spanish speaking skills......Travis...will have to think on that one......hands down nominee for Santa Anna would be Ricardo Montalban..........names of others who should've been included; Ben Johnson, Strother Martin, L.Q. Jones, Slim Pickens, James Best, Harry Carey Jr. Anthony Quinn,(would've been a great Tejano leader or army field commander),......ok going with what's provided...Monty Clift as Travis....BUT with some serious dialogue coaching to get a southern drawl....think he would've worked out. Round out the defenders with some bit roles; I'd have a good British character actor, then maybe Tony Darrow (High Chaparral),...Gordon Jackson, a real life Scot.....could've done MacGregor.....
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:03 pm

I agree that Andy Griffith would have been great as Crockett, I left him off the list because he was not listed as a major star for the time period. He was brand new. He had only made three films.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Davy on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:25 pm

How bout Kirk Douglas as Bowie ... Wow :o Burt as Crockett!, Wayne as Houston .. although Richard Boone was great already! :o Travis ... I dunno ... maybe Stuart Whitman? :lol:

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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby whiterabbitt83 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:44 pm

hay davy i'm a- havein a problum reading your ritein
Supposin' I was to go to work and learn how to... to read writin'. Well, how'd I know that the feller that... that wrote the writin' was a writin' the writin' right? See it could be that he wrote the writin' all wrong. Here I'd be just a readin' wrong writin', don't ya see? You probably been doin' it your whole life, just a readin' wrong writin' and not even knowin‘ it.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Davy on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:52 pm

whiterabbitt83 wrote: hay davy i'm a- havein a problum reading your ritein
Supposin' I was to go to work and learn how to... to read writin'. Well, how'd I know that the feller that... that wrote the writin' was a writin' the writin' right? See it could be that he wrote the writin' all wrong. Here I'd be just a readin' wrong writin', don't ya see? You probably been doin' it your whole life, just a readin' wrong writin' and not even knowin‘ it.


Thats just wrong WR ... thats why I like yas! :lol: :shock: Whats wrong with us? :x

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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby whiterabbitt83 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:22 pm

Well now davy, when a doctor doctors another doctor, well, does a doctor that's a doin' the doctorin' doctor the doctor that's a gettin' doctored the way that the doctor that's a doin' the doctorin' wants to doctor the doctor that's a gettin' doctored or does the doctor that a gettin' doctored tell the doctor that's a doin' the doctorin' to doctor the doctor the way that the doctor want's to :lol: .
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Alamo_Stu on Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Wesley Lauas as Emil Sande, the corrupt San Antonio businessman who attempts to force Flaca into marriage should have been picked to play Bowie. Widmark as Emil Sande would have made a good corrupt San Antonio businessman. Since Widmark was already po'd about being part of the sprawling, over-sized blockbuster anyway. :shock:
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby caplock on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:34 pm

gtj222 wrote:I agree that Andy Griffith would have been great as Crockett, I left him off the list because he was not listed as a major star for the time period. He was brand new. He had only made three films.


He might have only made three films, but one of them was A Face in the Crowd. I don't know that it was all that successful, but it definitely proved that Andy hasd the acting chops.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:37 pm

A face in the crowd is one of my favorite films. But I restricted the cast to the top movie stars from 1950 to 1959. He was not there yet.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby caplock on Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:45 am

gtj222 wrote:A face in the crowd is one of my favorite films. But I restricted the cast to the top movie stars from 1950 to 1959. He was not there yet.


Okay, put that way, I guess I can see your point. Really, by that standard, I guess he never actually became one. Even major TV stardom was still a year or two ahead for him when The Alamo /i] was filmed.
When I was writing my book, my wife and I kicked around some ideas similar to yours, except that our "dream team" could consist of any star at any stage of his career. For Crockett, we were kind of split on Andy and Johnny Cash. For Travis (and I can hear the howls of protest from the Forum already on this one) my pick was Elvis at about age thirty. Before calling for my head, think back to [i]Flaming Star
or Wild in the Country. The movies themselves were pretty lame, but Elvis stood out in both IMHO.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:17 pm

Another thing on Ole Andy. he was only thirty-three in 1959. Crockett at the time of the Alamo was around 49 1/2. Going by ages of movie stars in 1959 the ones that seem to be in the ballpark for Bowie (40) Travis (26 1/2) Crockett (491/2) are:
Burt Lancaster (47) Crockett
Henry Fonda (54) Crockett
Jimm Stewart (51) Crockett
Montgomery Cliff (39) Bowie
Charleston Heston (37) Bowie
Robert Mitchum (43) Bowie
William Holden (44) Bowie
Gregeory Peck (44) ???
Kirk Dougkas (43) Bowie
Rock Hudson (34) Travis ?
Marlon Brando (26) Travis
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Well, as Mustang, or someone else noted on a separate thread, Charlton Heston had been pegged by Wayne for Crockett, but turned down the role after
having read the script. Robert Mitchum was to be Bowie and Richard Widmark, Travis. But when Widmark insisted on playing Bowie and Wayne had contractual
obligations to use him, when he was given the Bowie role, that left Mitchum out of the picture. Too bad. Don't know if I miss Wane's choice of Marlon Brando
as Santa Anna, though.

My pick would be Jimmy Stewart for Crockett, William Holden for Bowie and Laurence Harvey for Travis. For the dialogue he was given, Harvey owned the role.
A definite no-nonsense firebrand, he would've eaten Patrick Wilson's Travis for breakfast.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby whiterabbitt83 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:14 pm

Nefarious wrote:Well, as Mustang, or someone else noted on a separate thread, Charlton Heston had been pegged by Wayne for Crockett, but turned down the role after
having read the script. Robert Mitchum was to be Bowie and Richard Widmark, Travis. But when Widmark insisted on playing Bowie and Wayne had contractual
obligations to use him, when he was given the Bowie role, that left Mitchum out of the picture. Too bad. Don't know if I miss Wane's choice of Marlon Brando
as Santa Anna, though.

My pick would be Jimmy Stewart for Crockett, William Holden for Bowie and Laurence Harvey for Travis. For the dialogue he was given, Harvey owned the role.
A definite no-nonsense firebrand, he would've eaten Patrick Wilson's Travis for breakfast.


sorry nef but Ethen Hawke's Travis from the never made disney' and ron howard's 2004 the alamo
would have eaten harvey alive
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:41 pm

He'd have to be awful gritty to out do Harvey in the role of Travis... :D
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby K Hale on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:55 pm

Living in a cave as I do, I am not even sure who Ethan Hawke is or why he'd make a good Travis, but Harvey was pretty darn good for doing the role as it was written. "I'm better than that rabble!"
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby gtj222 on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Ethen Hawk was not even alive in 1959. We are trying to pick the major stars of 1950-1959 for the roles other than the original cast except for Wayne as Houston.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby whiterabbitt83 on Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:39 pm

well crockett is a no brainer if u are recasting the role
] arthur hunnicutt wins hands down, he played frontiersmen and did westerns
and in a john wayne production should do better then any other star they could get
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:11 pm

I got it :D ....How about Frank Sinatra as Crockett.....Dean Martin as Bowie.....and Sammy Davis as Travis :o :lol: :roll:
(I'm just joking....dont call Mo!)
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:12 pm

oh yeah. Ronald Reagan as Houston.... :shock:
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby whiterabbitt83 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:55 am

hay guys gtj222 was serious when he posted this please try to treat it with respect and please cut the jokeing on this subject please
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby MartyB on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:17 am

I think Andy Griffith should have played Crockett (although not a big name at the time) with Arthur Hunnicutt
a close second.

I remember reading in a magazine article several years ago that Andy Griffith had been considered by Wayne
to play Crockett but his financial backers nixed that idea. I think it was a great idea...Griffith would have
been outstanding. His performance in 'A Face in the Crowd' showed that he could play dramatic roles.

As to Arthur Hunnicutt, I loved him as Crockett in 'The Last Command' (which is probably why he didn't do
Wayne's film). As a believable frontier type...he was dead on. I also think that Hunnicutt delivered the
finest portrayal of a mountain man ever done on film in 'The Big Sky'. Of course the dialog by Guthrie (in
the book and screenplay) was definitely period, but Hunnicutt's delivery of his lines and his use of the terms
'hoss' and 'this child' was absolutely natural.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby zapadore on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:34 am

while not actually covered by this topic....speaking of potential possibles for major roles in an Alamo movie.......has anyone seen 'Amistad'?.....for pure physical looks etc. I gotta say Matthew McConaughey may have been spot on as Travis in the 2004 Mo. He has the physical stature, height, accent and near age.....with the right sort of hair etc. like what he wore in Amistad......would've made a good Travis.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby K Hale on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:32 pm

Verum non in verbus, sed in testimonium.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:51 pm

zapadore wrote:while not actually covered by this topic....speaking of potential possibles for major roles in an Alamo movie.......has anyone seen 'Amistad'?.....for pure physical looks etc. I gotta say Matthew McConaughey may have been spot on as Travis in the 2004 Mo. He has the physical stature, height, accent and near age.....with the right sort of hair etc. like what he wore in Amistad......would've made a good Travis.


Yes! I have Amistad and thought the same thing when I first saw it. However, knowing what I know now of John Lee's concept for character development in The Alamo, he would not have worked since he was already a star. The idea was to have a relatively unknown actor *become* a leader and (hopefully) a star in the course of the movie story. And judging from Patrick's later achievements, The Alamo was a good kick-start in just that way.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:58 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:
zapadore wrote:while not actually covered by this topic....speaking of potential possibles for major roles in an Alamo movie.......has anyone seen 'Amistad'?.....for pure physical looks etc. I gotta say Matthew McConaughey may have been spot on as Travis in the 2004 Mo. He has the physical stature, height, accent and near age.....with the right sort of hair etc. like what he wore in Amistad......would've made a good Travis.


Yes! I have Amistad and thought the same thing when I first saw it. However, knowing what I know now of John Lee's concept for character development in The Alamo, he would not have worked since he was already a star. The idea was to have a relatively unknown actor *become* a leader and (hopefully) a star in the course of the movie story. And judging from Patrick's later achievements, The Alamo was a good kick-start in just that way.



Sean Connery, Matthew McConaughey, and Tom Hanks as the Alamo's "Holy Trinity".
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby Alamo_Stu on Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:23 pm

But Matthew McConaughey?! From Dazed & Confused? :? In Contact he was cast just for the heck of it. JP at least had a good lead part in the movie Geronimo.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby mrbassbone on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:06 am

Me personally...I would never cast Tom Hanks as Crockett. I also thought the idea of "recasting" the 1960 movie was to use those available at the time.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby MUSTANG on Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:50 am

I know I had posted this previously but I thought some might find it interesting. While at Republic, Patrick Ford wrote the original Alamo treatment dated 09/21/48. In his words, "It was to be a Wayne-Republic co-production at the time I wrote and the characters were shaped to fit contract actors and/or Wayne's buddies and hanger-ons. Here's a list, as I remember it"

Crockett - John Wayne
Bowie - Ward Bond.
Travis - Laurence Harvey
Parson - Chill Wills
Thimblerig - John Carroll
"Bub" - Harry Carey, jr.
"Bee Hunter" or "Fat Man" - Burl Ives
Lupita - Estrellita (Wayne's Love at that particular moment)
Sam - Blue Washington
Young Messenger - Ben Johnson
Antonio - Alfonso Bedoya
The above came from a letter written by Ford to BYU 06/30/80.

Interesting comment re: Harvey. Probably not true. Harvey would have been on 20 in 1948 when the treatment was written. His first film was House of Darkness released in 1948.

John Carroll was a Republic actor in Flying Tigers in 1942.

Estrellita Villeneuva? Let's Go Latin in 1937.

Blue Washington, Black character actor. Appeared in numerous films directed by John Ford.

Alfonso Bedoya - Mexican character actor, appeared in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre among many other films.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:00 am

Everybody but Harvey sounds reasonable for a 1948 list with Ford at the helm.
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Re: NEW CAST FOR 1960 ALAMO MOVIE

Postby zapadore on Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:16 am

Alamo_Stu wrote:But Matthew McConaughey?! From Dazed & Confused? :? In Contact he was cast just for the heck of it. JP at least had a good lead part in the movie Geronimo.


True......but look at him in Amistad.......like I said given the right make up...coaching etc. think he could've pulled it off.............
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Re: RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

Postby wconly on Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:49 am

K Hale wrote:I've only seen it once... but I remember that scene (below) because it was the only thing Widmark did that I liked in the whole movie.

Just out of curiousity, what is it you dislike so much about Widmark's Bowie! I really enjoy(ed) his portrail! My favorite line from the movie is right after Travis fires the cannon in response to Santa Anna's demands for complete surrender and Bowie/Widmark turns to Crockett and says: "I hate to say anything nice about that long winded jack-o'-apes, but he sure knows the short way to start a war!" Later we have Crockett saying: "You're not much for this forgive and forget stuff, are ya?" Bowie: "No!" Or, Crockett jabing Bowie with: "I still say you're bad tempered Bowie!" I find the relationship between the two different personalities intriging especially when you take in the fact that Wayne and Widmark supposedly did not get along all that well off camera. Widmark's Bowie shows a wide range of balance between courtieous to flat out grumpy! So, what is it that you don't like? W>
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Re: RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

Postby NefariousNed on Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:16 pm

I know your question is for Kristi, but I'll try to answer some of it. In THE ALAMO (1960) the Bowie, Crockett, Travis characters are different kinds of leaders.

Crockett, the most sympathetic character, has his men following him because they like to be around him. Although he is a famous celebrity and ex-congressman, he is still one of them. But even in this, he has to trick them to get them to stay. I've always thought that, had he given his men the speech he wasted on Flaca by the tree that they would've followed him unquestioningly.

Travis is an enigma from the beginning of the film to the ending. A holier/better than thou sort of guy, he scorns his own men til almost the end when, in a feeling of desperation, he finally levels with them regarding their situation. But it is too little, too late. You don't tell someone on their deathbed that, in spite of the fact that you've looked down on them all of their lives, they're okay after all. Well, gee, thanks for telling me, now I'm leaving. Even his friendship with Captain Dickinson is a puzzle. While he uses Dickinson as a sounding board to vent his views, it's obvious that he doesn't have much respect for him, either.

Now Bowie is another thing. While he gets warm, chummy, and introspective with Crockett, you never see him using any of this charm on his own men. As a matter of fact, the only way he seems to control them is by bullying them. While they generally seem to like him, he in turn stays aloof with them, never really answering any of their questions. "Old Sam told Travis, Travis told me, and now I'm telling you." "You'll get the word." "I'll tell you when we're leaving!" (Boot to the bum.) When Crockett tries to shame him into staying in front of Smitty, you never really get the feeling that he's staying because he knows it's the right thing to do. It is merely his reputation on the line. And the "You're not much for this forgive and forget," line is also misleading and out of character with the historical Bowie who was quick to forgive and forget. Had he not been, he would not have survived as long as he had. While the historical Bowie was not one to pick a fight, he would do everything he could to avoid it. Once in the fight however, Heaven help his adversary. Again, while Widmark's Bowie seems to "lead" his men by bullying them, you never really get the feeling that this is a dangerous man to be dealing with and that his men would, in fact, be following him out of fear. All the same, most of them seem to agree with him that the "cut, slash and run" tactics are the better part of valour. And, after hearing Travis' "Victory or Death" non-line speech, it makes you wonder why Bowie just didn't continue on out the gate. Everything Travis said in his speech was true. They had held off the enemy for 12 days, they had bled them (through "cut slash and run" tactics"), now it was time to leave. It just seemed to me anyway that, in electing to stay, Bowie was once again only doing so to uphold his sense of honour, not because he thought it was the right thing to do.
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Re: RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

Postby K Hale on Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:02 pm

I am going to agree with all Ned said, plus add the following. Widmark portrayed Bowie as a caricature, and he was used as buffoonish comic relief. I was appalled. There was nothing of the historical Bowie about this character, he was an entirely different persona just using the same name. And I was put off by all the talk of leaving the Alamo and having to be persuaded into staying. In reality Bowie was the FIRST to declare that he would NOT leave, on February 2nd in the "die in these ditches" letter to Gov. Smith.

I just kept thinking, where is the Bowie I know?? Not in the Waynamo. :evil:
Verum non in verbus, sed in testimonium.
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Re: RECASTING ALAMO MOVIES

Postby K Hale on Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:07 pm

And lest it be thought that I just can't accept anything that's not the 2004 movie: I thought Sterling Hayden did a fine job in The Last Command. THAT was recognizably Bowie. But Widmark? Image
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