The Actors.

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

Moderator: NefariousNed

Re: The Actors.

Postby cc nolen on Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:56 pm

wconly wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote:Very interesting. I've never heard this.

Rich: Do you think it is possible the Arness was still holding a grudge against Wayne for 'basically' selling him into 'Gunsmoke'? W>


Well, the Intro to Marshall Dillon for the first couple of years was done by Wayne. He was looking through a window and says; Hello, my name is Wayne. There is a new Western and I told them James Arness was their man etc etc...Now heres my friend Jim Arness as Matt Dillon etc etc.
Sounds pretty friendly to me. :D
chris...
User avatar
cc nolen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana.......Land of Bowie

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:34 pm

Yeah, the very first episode had that opening. John Wayne was offered the part, and he basically said "I don't do Television, but I've got a young protégé who would be perfect." Hollywood movies and TV were totally at odds in the fifties. It was beneath a movie star to do TV, and likewise, movies didn't often elevate TV stars to moviedom. Even into the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid era, the joke was if you were casting for a movie, go for Robert Redford, but if for TV, don't aspire higher than Robert Conrad.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:57 am

Interesting. I never heard this?????? It's in the book!!!!! LOL!
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:25 am

MUSTANG wrote:Interesting. I never heard this?????? It's in the book!!!!! LOL!

What book?
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:26 am

I PROOFED the book. I didn't READ it. :lol:

(Actually, Windy proofed it. What did I do? I did something from cover to cover. LOL.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby AlamoGill on Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:08 am

I think this is what you are talking about

John Wayne Gunsmoke intro September 1955:

User avatar
AlamoGill
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:54 pm
Location: Aberystwyth Mid Wales UK

Re: The Actors.

Postby MUSTANG on Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:22 pm

Pages 307-308.
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:59 pm

Wasn't Arness under contract to Wayne? YES I also know Arness covered this in his biography which is a good read. He had no problems with Wayne about "Gunsmoke". Gee guys why would you be upset with a guy who gave you wealth, fame and freedom to do what you enjoyed.
User avatar
Fargo Fenwyck
 
Posts: 2317
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Northwood, Ohio

Re: The Actors.

Postby The Colonel on Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:30 pm

During an award presentation John Wayne introduced James Arness by saying he got him into television to get him out of the movies, because he was bigger than Wayne.
Arness interrupted, "Taller maybe."
Do not be uneasy about me. I am among friends.
User avatar
The Colonel
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:28 pm
Location: Between Possum Kingdom & Hickory Tavern, South Carolina

Re: The Actors.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:26 pm

The Colonel wrote:During an award presentation John Wayne introduced James Arness by saying he got him into television to get him out of the movies, because he was bigger than Wayne.
Arness interrupted, "Taller maybe."

I remember watching that at the time, and thought that Arness looked absolutely gigantic as he approached John Wayne at the podium. I knew he was 6' 7", but I'd never before seen anyone tower over Wayne like that. HUGE!!! :)
User avatar
SantaClaus
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:57 pm

MUSTANG wrote:Pages 307-308.

Holy cow, John! You didn't SAY it was in the first chapter! :lol:
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:02 pm

SantaClaus wrote:
The Colonel wrote:During an award presentation John Wayne introduced James Arness by saying he got him into television to get him out of the movies, because he was bigger than Wayne.
Arness interrupted, "Taller maybe."

I remember watching that at the time, and thought that Arness looked absolutely gigantic as he approached John Wayne at the podium. I knew he was 6' 7", but I'd never before seen anyone tower over Wayne like that. HUGE!!! :)

We have a photo in the museum of Arness standing next to Happy at the same distance from the camera. He towers over him. When I pointed that out to Virginia, she said that Happy was 6 feet tall himself. Arness looks more than 7 inches taller than Happy, but it may be the boots. Happy always said Duke was 6' 7" in his boots which added 3". (Happy and Virginia both were prone to exaggeration. ;) )
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:28 pm

Rich, You've talked about and written about heights and how you can't always tell who's taller and how tall a person is by looking at a picture or how they look in a movie. Do you recall during HHD's 2016, at Joan Headley's party, Chris Nolen arrived and asked me how tall I was. You said something like, "Tall ain't he?" I told Chris I was about 6' 1 & 1/2", and he thought I was understating my height because he's about 6' 1 1/2", and I appeared much taller. But Chris was wearing flat sandals, and I was wearing cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. It's amazing how much a tall hat and boot heels can exaggerate one's height.
It's fun to watch Gunsmoke and see James Arness bend, stoop or slouch to fit into frame with his fellow actors. He looked great in "The Thing", especially since many of the other actors were short to medium in height.
Even if he had been available, perhaps he would have been too tall for John Wayne's "The Alamo".
User avatar
SantaClaus
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Actors.

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:47 am

I've noticed on quite a few Gunsmoke episodes that Arness towered over so many of his co-stars. Even Dennis Weaver, who was no shorty, looked quite a bit smaller than Arness.
TexianAtHeartII
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:26 am
Location: Westland, Mi

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:55 am

I promise you that, on the movie screen, relative height is planned as part of the creative process -- most of the time. Yes, Arness was tall, but, even if Dennis Weaver were the same height, Arness' head-and-shoulder close-ups would have been shot with the lens lower than his face looking up at him and Weaver with the lens higher than his face looking down on him. This gives the impression that one is taller than the other, even if he isn't. In a 2-shot (where you see both characters on screen at the same time, the apple-box is used under the actor who is supposed to look taller or is the star of the show. Camera angles are the greatest and most subtle psychological contributor of filming a movie. Shooting up at somebody makes them appear strong, heroic, dominating, in control, sure of themselves, etc. Shooting down on somebody suggests weakness, subservience, insecurity, and other subtly negative character traits suggested by the script. Every Hollywood director of photography knows this technique, and most directors use it regularly if subtly.

Personally, I think Arness was not happy with his extreme height. I think this for several reasons. Wayne's makeup man's nephew was at Alamo Village one time and told me that his uncle said Duke was 6'5" and not 6'4" as always promoted. I asked why, and he said it was because, in Hollywood back then, if you were 6'4", you were "a man," but if you were taller, you were "a freak." Arness would have probably heard that all his grown-up life. LOL. Another reason I think he was self-conscious (other than the fact that ALL actors are) is because there was a set built at Alamo Village upstairs over the Trading Post that was to be Gen. Nelson Miles' H.Q. in town in the TV movie Gunsmoke: The Last Apache, and Arness had to enter the office through a doorway from the hall. The set builders created a normal height doorway, but Arness insisted that the top be raise a foot so he wouldn't have to stoop to go through it. Also, perhaps least likely as a suggestion of his paranoia, was that he always chose (he did, not the wardrobe man) extremely wide-brimmed hats, like the ridiculous one he wore as Jim Bowie in The Alamo: 13 Strays from Glory.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby wconly on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:48 am

RLC-GTT wrote: ... Also, perhaps least likely as a suggestion of his paranoia, was that he always chose (he did, not the wardrobe man) extremely wide-brimmed hats, like the ridiculous one he wore as Jim Bowie in The Alamo: 13 Strays from Glory.


You know something Rich.... this is probably the first time I have ever disagreed with you over anything, and as much as I do not like the film; "13 Days to Glory", I did like the hat! So, there :shock: ! W>
User avatar
wconly
 
Posts: 3180
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:49 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:40 pm

When I interviewed one of the stuntmen on "Alamo", he said he was 6'4 1/4" tall. I said he was about the same height as Duke. "No," he replied. "Duke is 6'4", I'm a quarter-inch taller." And he was adamant about the difference.
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:50 pm

MUSTANG wrote:When I interviewed one of the stuntmen on "Alamo", he said he was 6'4 1/4" tall. I said he was about the same height as Duke. "No," he replied. "Duke is 6'4", I'm a quarter-inch taller." And he was adamant about the difference.

So it depends on whether he really KNEW what Duke's real height was or if he just went with what everybody (and Duke) always said.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:00 am

In the movie Many Rivers To Cross, with Robert Taylor, Arness had a role in it and he and Taylor had a scene at a saloon where the subject was the height of Arness character. He said how people were always asking him stupid questions about his height and he was kind of tired of it. Just then, a rather small guy comes up and just stands there looking up at him. He gives Taylors character a look, like here we go again. The little guy asks him, how's the weather up there. He tells the guy, see for yourself, picks him up eye to eye, then proceeds to throw the little guy across the room.
TexianAtHeartII
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:26 am
Location: Westland, Mi

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:57 am

wconly wrote:
RLC-GTT wrote: ... Also, perhaps least likely as a suggestion of his paranoia, was that he always chose (he did, not the wardrobe man) extremely wide-brimmed hats, like the ridiculous one he wore as Jim Bowie in The Alamo: 13 Strays from Glory.


You know something Rich.... this is probably the first time I have ever disagreed with you over anything, and as much as I do not like the film; "13 Days to Glory", I did like the hat! So, there :shock: ! W>

It was a GREAT Matt Dillon hat. It just wasn't Jim Bowie -- nothing like that existed in 1836. But that's television.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:29 pm

John Dierkes as Jocko Robertson. "I just can't do it, fellas!"
Attachments
john dierkes - alamo.PNG
john dierkes - alamo.PNG (582.78 KiB) Viewed 1583 times
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby cc nolen on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:56 pm

SantaClaus wrote:Rich, You've talked about and written about heights and how you can't always tell who's taller and how tall a person is by looking at a picture or how they look in a movie. Do you recall during HHD's 2016, at Joan Headley's party, Chris Nolen arrived and asked me how tall I was. You said something like, "Tall ain't he?" I told Chris I was about 6' 1 & 1/2", and he thought I was understating my height because he's about 6' 1 1/2", and I appeared much taller. But Chris was wearing flat sandals, and I was wearing cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. It's amazing how much a tall hat and boot heels can exaggerate one's height.
It's fun to watch Gunsmoke and see James Arness bend, stoop or slouch to fit into frame with his fellow actors. He looked great in "The Thing", especially since many of the other actors were short to medium in height.
Even if he had been available, perhaps he would have been too tall for John Wayne's "The Alamo".

:D I was 6 ft 3 inches when I was young! :shock: Now, with 5 back operations, and old age...I am just under 6' 2". :lol: :? If they keep carving on me I'll be 5' 10" before long! :o
Chris...
User avatar
cc nolen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana.......Land of Bowie

Re: The Actors.

Postby cc nolen on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:01 pm

Give me a ten gal. hat and some cowboy boots and I may be 7 ft tall - :lol:
Attachments
hhd 16 29.JPG
hhd 16 29.JPG (114.49 KiB) Viewed 1524 times
User avatar
cc nolen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana.......Land of Bowie

Re: The Actors.

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:48 am

cc nolen wrote:
SantaClaus wrote:Rich, You've talked about and written about heights and how you can't always tell who's taller and how tall a person is by looking at a picture or how they look in a movie. Do you recall during HHD's 2016, at Joan Headley's party, Chris Nolen arrived and asked me how tall I was. You said something like, "Tall ain't he?" I told Chris I was about 6' 1 & 1/2", and he thought I was understating my height because he's about 6' 1 1/2", and I appeared much taller. But Chris was wearing flat sandals, and I was wearing cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. It's amazing how much a tall hat and boot heels can exaggerate one's height.
It's fun to watch Gunsmoke and see James Arness bend, stoop or slouch to fit into frame with his fellow actors. He looked great in "The Thing", especially since many of the other actors were short to medium in height.
Even if he had been available, perhaps he would have been too tall for John Wayne's "The Alamo".

:D I was 6 ft 3 inches when I was young! :shock: Now, with 5 back operations, and old age...I am just under 6' 2". :lol: :? If they keep carving on me I'll be 5' 10" before long! :o
Chris...


Same here, Chris. I have been 5'8" all my adult life. The last couple of years, I've gotten smaller. Went to the doc today, they said I'm 5'6" now. I don't like it that I'm getting smaller. It might give me an inferiority complex.
TexianAtHeartII
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:26 am
Location: Westland, Mi

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:48 am

Think big. ;)
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby cc nolen on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:23 pm

RLC-GTT wrote:Think big. ;)

I see it worked for you! :shock:
Attachments
hhd-16-17.JPG
hhd-16-17.JPG (113.85 KiB) Viewed 1443 times
User avatar
cc nolen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana.......Land of Bowie

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:25 pm

Hey! I'm... standing in a hole! (And apparently hoping a bird will land on my finger. LOL)
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:35 am

"Now, listen and listen tight."
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:18 am

Ha!
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby SantaClaus on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:34 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Hey! I'm... standing in a hole! (And apparently hoping a bird will land on my finger. LOL)

I thought you were saying, "Pull my finger." :lol:
User avatar
SantaClaus
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:39 pm

No, I learned better at a very early age. LOL.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:55 pm

This is almost more than a man can bear!
Attachments
john dierkes - alamo.PNG
john dierkes - alamo.PNG (582.78 KiB) Viewed 1343 times
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby BigJake1979 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:42 pm

I was just reading an article and saw a video about how Wayne learned his way of walking, speaking and well everything he did when portraying a lawman or leader from Wyatt Earp. I always thought he learned most of this from John Ford.
BigJake1979
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:09 pm

Simple. Every storyteller made up his own reason. ;) Wayne always said that he was inadvertently copying his hero Harry Carey.
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby BigJake1979 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:16 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Simple. Every storyteller made up his own reason. ;) Wayne always said that he was inadvertently copying his hero Harry Carey.


It seems that have heard this too.
BigJake1979
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby TexianAtHeartII on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:49 am

I always heard it was actor, Paul Fix, who taught him that walking style during their 2 reeler western days.
TexianAtHeartII
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:26 am
Location: Westland, Mi

Re: The Actors.

Postby BigJake1979 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:48 am

TexianAtHeartII wrote:I always heard it was actor, Paul Fix, who taught him that walking style during their 2 reeler western days.

It seems that may have heard that too.
BigJake1979
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: The Actors.

Postby MUSTANG on Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:16 am

That's what I heard as well and if it's in the book, it must be true. LOL!
User avatar
MUSTANG
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:04 am

Hahahahahahaha! :lol: Well, at least we could say it is "heavy reading." :lol: :lol:
User avatar
RLC-GTT
 
Posts: 17885
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am

Re: The Actors.

Postby NefariousNed on Sun May 14, 2017 3:32 pm

San Antonio Express News Sunday May 14, 2017
Attachments
TeresaChampion.jpg
TeresaChampion.jpg (94.66 KiB) Viewed 845 times
TeresaChampion2.jpg
TeresaChampion2.jpg (66.62 KiB) Viewed 847 times
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/OutsideTheAlamo/
User avatar
NefariousNed
Moderator
 
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Alamo ( 1960 )

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron