EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:13 pm

That´s a beautiful knife and I love the carved handle. If the provenance is solid, it would be a great knife to own.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:37 pm

A Bowie Knife to admire.... ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Davy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:11 pm

cc nolen wrote:I was looking at some past auctions on the net yesterday and I came across this interesting knife. It was taken from a dead Mexican at San Jacinto. It had miles of family letters and other provenance dating back to the Texas family who owned it. It was made by Alfred Williams of Sheffield England...No one knows if the soldado got it from the Alamo but it could have been an officer's knife...maybe Travis, or Crockett, and even Bowie. It sold for $60,000...Maybe Mr Collins bought it?...I'll check his book tonite
Enjoy.


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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Davy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:11 pm

cc nolen wrote:A Bowie Knife to admire.... ;)


Nice clean lines .. :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:24 pm

I usually name all my big bowies....I think I'll call the big white handled knife PIG~DADDY.....or.....THE BARON, because of the cross escutcheon....Chris
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:58 pm

cc nolen wrote:I usually name all my big bowies....I think I'll call the big white handled knife PIG~DADDY.....or.....THE BARON, because of the cross escutcheon....Chris


Or the Maltese Bowie, since the cross is shaped like a Maltese cross. I thought Maltese Falcon would do nicely too, but rumor has it some old Bogart movie put it´s paws on that name already. :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby wconly on Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:20 pm

Seguin wrote:
cc nolen wrote:I usually name all my big bowies....I think I'll call the big white handled knife PIG~DADDY.....or.....THE BARON, because of the cross escutcheon....Chris


Or the Maltese Bowie, since the cross is shaped like a Maltese cross. I thought Maltese Falcon would do nicely too, but rumor has it some old Bogart movie put it´s paws on that name already. :D

I don't know...how about "The Crusader!" Looks like something a person on a 'crusade' would carry -- if the 'crusade' were in the west, that is ;) ! W>
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:11 pm

Thats what my wife said William.....The Crusader!....sounds pretty good :D
This is actually an old knife made by Robert Blasingame in 2006. It was my first try at the Noah Smithwick Knife...Then some folks like ~Joe Musso, :? said it was a little too fancy for that time in Jim's life so I had another one built to better suit Noah's description.....then I sent the first attempted knife to Gary Griffin of Bend OR. and he added the siver strap on the spine and the cross on the handle....just something different, but I like it.
Chris...
Pictured below is the new Noah Smithwick Knife.... :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Another beautiful Bowie Knife to admire:
*Its actually a replica made by Cowboy Bob Giles of Whitefish MT.
He won the top Western Knife Makers award with this beauty....enjoy :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:13 pm

Seguin wrote:
cc nolen wrote:I usually name all my big bowies....I think I'll call the big white handled knife PIG~DADDY.....or.....THE BARON, because of the cross escutcheon....Chris


Or the Maltese Bowie, since the cross is shaped like a Maltese cross. I thought Maltese Falcon would do nicely too, but rumor has it some old Bogart movie put it´s paws on that name already. :D

How about the "Millenium Falcon?" (Wait! That's been used too.)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:41 pm

"The knife was a fact. James Bowie was a fact. Both were of a character to seize human imagination, and human imagination welded them together and forged them into an extraordinary legend." -- J. Frank Dobie in "Jim Bowie's Knife" (Tales of Old-Time Texas, by J. Frank Dobie, 1928, 1930, 1931, 1943, 1955.)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Wade Dillon on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:09 am

Somewhat unrelated.

Where can I find a Bowie knife with an antler handle? A damascus blade, correct?

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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:24 pm

Wade:
You can go on ebay and type in stag bowie knife.....and you will have around 1000 to choose from.
Make sure the seller has 100% good feed back, and look them over real good ...Remember* good damascus is usually 1084 tool steel blended with 15N20...also, look at the size. A good Bowie will have a 9 to 12 inch blade and a 5 to 6 inch handle. and last but not least....dont be in a hurry, shop until you find something you really like :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:33 pm

On ebay now for less than $120.00
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Ebay under $100...
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:37 pm

another ebay Bowie...
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:38 pm

and one more bowie for under $100
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:39 am

RLC-GTT wrote:"The knife was a fact. James Bowie was a fact. Both were of a character to seize human imagination, and human imagination welded them together and forged them into an extraordinary legend." -- J. Frank Dobie in "Jim Bowie's Knife" (Tales of Old-Time Texas, by J. Frank Dobie, 1928, 1930, 1931, 1943, 1955.)

I don't have a lot of faith in Dobie's "history," but I do like the way he captures truth.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:12 pm

I like the way he used the word "Welded" in his verse....With James Bowie the legend has become the truth and folks will come to blows to see that it is ruled the truth :o In the late 1820's All of America was looking for a rough fighting example of the frontier, and who better than a fellow from Louisiana who tears up a beach in Natchez, brings a knife to a sword fight and kills a fellow with it, and he survives being stabbed and shot :o ....NO email back then , so, in the minds of everyone - the knife became bigger and badder over time....and the rest is history :roll: ....I believe the ever growing legend forced Bowie to grow with it... :D ....and then came Hollywood! :shock:
Chris...
Its hard for folks to believe that the knife below could have been Bowie's early Sandbar Knife ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:14 pm

:? Or maybe you believe Rezin Bowie's story, then this is the Sandbar Knife.... :shock:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:17 pm

But the General Public believes he had this from the beginning ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:43 pm

and lent it to Disney for Jason Patric's use in THE ALAMO, only to have it left on the movie set and picked up by singer Phil Collins. Joe Musso is just Phil's cover story. LOL.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:02 am

cc nolen wrote:I like the way he used the word "Welded" in his verse....With James Bowie the legend has become the truth and folks will come to blows to see that it is ruled the truth :o In the late 1820's All of America was looking for a rough fighting example of the frontier, and who better than a fellow from Louisiana who tears up a beach in Natchez, brings a knife to a sword fight and kills a fellow with it, and he survives being stabbed and shot :o ....NO email back then , so, in the minds of everyone - the knife became bigger and badder over time....and the rest is history :roll: ....I believe the ever growing legend forced Bowie to grow with it... :D ....and then came Hollywood! :shock:

"Believe everything you read now?" :mrgreen:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:30 pm

Why not?....Folks are surely making money hand and foot by just writting it down. :o
Three Roads to where?...no comment :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:39 am

Chris, remind me who these knife-makin' guys are again? I know this came up just a week or so ago, but now I can't find the post. This is my photo from the Alamo gift shop, and someone on Flickr is asking me who these men are.

Image
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby gtj222 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:48 am

Isn't it James Black and his brother? From Arkansas.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Just about :roll: ....its James Black and Jacob Buzzard. The knife is known as the Bart Moore Bowie.
After Black was blinded by his father in law, Buzzard took him in and helped him for the rest of his days.
This is a nice display....I think thats a replica of the Moore Knife, but it surely is a good one....might be the real one, I cant tell by the photo...let me know
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:02 pm

cc nolen wrote:Just about :roll: ....its James Black and Jacob Buzzard. The knife is known as the Bart Moore Bowie.
After Black was blinded by his father in law, Buzzard took him in and helped him for the rest of his days.
This is a nice display....I think thats a replica of the Moore Knife, but it surely is a good one....might be the real one, I cant tell by the photo...let me know
Chris... :D

Thanks, now I can let the guy know.

The label on the knife merely says "Bart Moore Bowie Knife," which makes it sound like it's THE Bart Moore knife. This is in the Alamo gift shop.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Hmmmm?...It was at the Historical Arkansas Museum for a long time. Maybe they moved it to the Alamo.
That looks like a real good replica to me in your picture, but it is such a good one it has me guessing....and it could very well be THE Bart Moore Knife
We need Ned to look at it...he has handled the real knife and may know by looking at your photo.
Some folks believe James Black made the Moore Knife and it is said that Black used an acorn as his trademark, but I have never found another blade with it on there.....and the mystery continues :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:35 pm

The Bart Moore knife in the Alamo gift shop/museum is a replica, as is the Musso knife on display there.

Can't figure why Bart would let the Arkansas museum display the real knife so tastelessly in the Iron Mistress movie display.

At one time, a Japanese collector had offered him four million dollars for it. I'm sure that collector would've at least diplayed it with more dignity.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Nefarious wrote:The Bart Moore knife in the Alamo gift shop/museum is a replica, as is the Musso knife on display there.

Can't figure why Bart would let the Arkansas museum display the real knife so tastelessly in the Iron Mistress movie display.

At one time, a Japanese collector had offered him four million dollars for it. I'm sure that collector would've at least diplayed it with more dignity.



Thanks Ned....I just couldnt tell by the photo.
I am disappointed as well on how they displayed the Moore Knife at the HAM in Little Rock. I also think the Jap would have displayed it with a little more dignity...but I'm glad its still in the good ole US of A.... ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:58 pm

Does anyone know the maker of the Moore knife on display at the Alamo?....I think the Musso Knife was made by Bill Keesler, but I could be wrong....help :?: :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:25 pm

The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:10 am

K Hale wrote:The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.


I looked at it close today. It's a replica, alright, albeit, a nice one.

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife". Funny how they feel alright with identifying the Bart Moore knife, but give no credit to Joe Musso.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:22 am

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife".


Rustic? The word does´nt make much sense since you can apply it to almost any old object. The Musso style replica is "rustic", while the Bart Moore replica is´nt. Hmm...
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:09 am

Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote:The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.


I looked at it close today. It's a replica, alright, albeit, a nice one.

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife". Funny how they feel alright with identifying the Bart Moore knife, but give no credit to Joe Musso.

That is odd.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:11 am

Probably has to do with what they agreed to say when the knife was donated or something like that, although I think Bruce makes those decisions -- and he's better than that. ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:12 pm

There is a long running feud with the Antique Bowie Knife Association and Joe Musso about the Brass-back Bowie Knife. When Bill Williamson was alive, he didnt believe there was a James Black and he thought all brass back knives were made from 1930 and up. This is not as bad the case today since Bill past away ~ and Bill Worthen of the HAM in Little Rock showed proof of James Black and his knives.....There is still much contraversy in the knife world about these issues. There was a recent bad arguement on the Muzzle loader forum on these issues.
> So, maybe that has something to do with it......also, I have noticed that when you buy one of Hibben's copies or Windless Cutlery's, they call it a Texas Bowie or even a Primitive Bowie???
*** :? I wish they would re-title the 2 bowies at the Alamo -* A Replica of the Bart Moore Bowie & *A Replica of the Joseph Musso Bowie :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:18 pm

That's how they should be labeled.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:37 am

K Hale wrote:That's how they should be labeled.


Right on!
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