EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:38 pm

and one more bowie for under $100
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:39 am

RLC-GTT wrote:"The knife was a fact. James Bowie was a fact. Both were of a character to seize human imagination, and human imagination welded them together and forged them into an extraordinary legend." -- J. Frank Dobie in "Jim Bowie's Knife" (Tales of Old-Time Texas, by J. Frank Dobie, 1928, 1930, 1931, 1943, 1955.)

I don't have a lot of faith in Dobie's "history," but I do like the way he captures truth.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:12 pm

I like the way he used the word "Welded" in his verse....With James Bowie the legend has become the truth and folks will come to blows to see that it is ruled the truth :o In the late 1820's All of America was looking for a rough fighting example of the frontier, and who better than a fellow from Louisiana who tears up a beach in Natchez, brings a knife to a sword fight and kills a fellow with it, and he survives being stabbed and shot :o ....NO email back then , so, in the minds of everyone - the knife became bigger and badder over time....and the rest is history :roll: ....I believe the ever growing legend forced Bowie to grow with it... :D ....and then came Hollywood! :shock:
Chris...
Its hard for folks to believe that the knife below could have been Bowie's early Sandbar Knife ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:14 pm

:? Or maybe you believe Rezin Bowie's story, then this is the Sandbar Knife.... :shock:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:17 pm

But the General Public believes he had this from the beginning ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:43 pm

and lent it to Disney for Jason Patric's use in THE ALAMO, only to have it left on the movie set and picked up by singer Phil Collins. Joe Musso is just Phil's cover story. LOL.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:02 am

cc nolen wrote:I like the way he used the word "Welded" in his verse....With James Bowie the legend has become the truth and folks will come to blows to see that it is ruled the truth :o In the late 1820's All of America was looking for a rough fighting example of the frontier, and who better than a fellow from Louisiana who tears up a beach in Natchez, brings a knife to a sword fight and kills a fellow with it, and he survives being stabbed and shot :o ....NO email back then , so, in the minds of everyone - the knife became bigger and badder over time....and the rest is history :roll: ....I believe the ever growing legend forced Bowie to grow with it... :D ....and then came Hollywood! :shock:

"Believe everything you read now?" :mrgreen:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:30 pm

Why not?....Folks are surely making money hand and foot by just writting it down. :o
Three Roads to where?...no comment :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:39 am

Chris, remind me who these knife-makin' guys are again? I know this came up just a week or so ago, but now I can't find the post. This is my photo from the Alamo gift shop, and someone on Flickr is asking me who these men are.

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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby gtj222 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:48 am

Isn't it James Black and his brother? From Arkansas.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Just about :roll: ....its James Black and Jacob Buzzard. The knife is known as the Bart Moore Bowie.
After Black was blinded by his father in law, Buzzard took him in and helped him for the rest of his days.
This is a nice display....I think thats a replica of the Moore Knife, but it surely is a good one....might be the real one, I cant tell by the photo...let me know
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:02 pm

cc nolen wrote:Just about :roll: ....its James Black and Jacob Buzzard. The knife is known as the Bart Moore Bowie.
After Black was blinded by his father in law, Buzzard took him in and helped him for the rest of his days.
This is a nice display....I think thats a replica of the Moore Knife, but it surely is a good one....might be the real one, I cant tell by the photo...let me know
Chris... :D

Thanks, now I can let the guy know.

The label on the knife merely says "Bart Moore Bowie Knife," which makes it sound like it's THE Bart Moore knife. This is in the Alamo gift shop.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Hmmmm?...It was at the Historical Arkansas Museum for a long time. Maybe they moved it to the Alamo.
That looks like a real good replica to me in your picture, but it is such a good one it has me guessing....and it could very well be THE Bart Moore Knife
We need Ned to look at it...he has handled the real knife and may know by looking at your photo.
Some folks believe James Black made the Moore Knife and it is said that Black used an acorn as his trademark, but I have never found another blade with it on there.....and the mystery continues :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:35 pm

The Bart Moore knife in the Alamo gift shop/museum is a replica, as is the Musso knife on display there.

Can't figure why Bart would let the Arkansas museum display the real knife so tastelessly in the Iron Mistress movie display.

At one time, a Japanese collector had offered him four million dollars for it. I'm sure that collector would've at least diplayed it with more dignity.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Nefarious wrote:The Bart Moore knife in the Alamo gift shop/museum is a replica, as is the Musso knife on display there.

Can't figure why Bart would let the Arkansas museum display the real knife so tastelessly in the Iron Mistress movie display.

At one time, a Japanese collector had offered him four million dollars for it. I'm sure that collector would've at least diplayed it with more dignity.



Thanks Ned....I just couldnt tell by the photo.
I am disappointed as well on how they displayed the Moore Knife at the HAM in Little Rock. I also think the Jap would have displayed it with a little more dignity...but I'm glad its still in the good ole US of A.... ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:58 pm

Does anyone know the maker of the Moore knife on display at the Alamo?....I think the Musso Knife was made by Bill Keesler, but I could be wrong....help :?: :roll:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:25 pm

The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:10 am

K Hale wrote:The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.


I looked at it close today. It's a replica, alright, albeit, a nice one.

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife". Funny how they feel alright with identifying the Bart Moore knife, but give no credit to Joe Musso.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:22 am

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife".


Rustic? The word does´nt make much sense since you can apply it to almost any old object. The Musso style replica is "rustic", while the Bart Moore replica is´nt. Hmm...
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:09 am

Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote:The gift shop, IMO, should label it "Bart Moore style Bowie knife" or the like. The label is rather misleading.


I looked at it close today. It's a replica, alright, albeit, a nice one.

The Musso style knife replica is labelled something like "Rustic, frontier-style Bowie knife". Funny how they feel alright with identifying the Bart Moore knife, but give no credit to Joe Musso.

That is odd.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:11 am

Probably has to do with what they agreed to say when the knife was donated or something like that, although I think Bruce makes those decisions -- and he's better than that. ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:12 pm

There is a long running feud with the Antique Bowie Knife Association and Joe Musso about the Brass-back Bowie Knife. When Bill Williamson was alive, he didnt believe there was a James Black and he thought all brass back knives were made from 1930 and up. This is not as bad the case today since Bill past away ~ and Bill Worthen of the HAM in Little Rock showed proof of James Black and his knives.....There is still much contraversy in the knife world about these issues. There was a recent bad arguement on the Muzzle loader forum on these issues.
> So, maybe that has something to do with it......also, I have noticed that when you buy one of Hibben's copies or Windless Cutlery's, they call it a Texas Bowie or even a Primitive Bowie???
*** :? I wish they would re-title the 2 bowies at the Alamo -* A Replica of the Bart Moore Bowie & *A Replica of the Joseph Musso Bowie :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:18 pm

That's how they should be labeled.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:37 am

K Hale wrote:That's how they should be labeled.


Right on!
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:48 pm

Its been since 1998 since I was at the Alamo....can someone take some pictures of how these knives are displayed and post them
Thanks.....Chris
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Davy on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:31 am

cc nolen wrote:Its been since 1998 since I was at the Alamo....can someone take some pictures of how these knives are displayed and post them
Thanks.....Chris


Remem ber if you will pictures are verboten in the shrine! :lol:
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:38 am

Only if they find out! ;)
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:38 am

cc nolen wrote:Its been since 1998 since I was at the Alamo....can someone take some pictures of how these knives are displayed and post them
Thanks.....Chris


Here are a couple that I happened to run across on the internet.

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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:43 pm

Thanks Kristi:
I only thought pictures were not allowed in the church :roll: :?: ...I wanted to see the Moore Knife and the Musso copy.
The pics you posted are of a Windless Cutlery Primitive Bowie and of course the Searles Knife in the church....many thanks and if anyone has more...please post
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:47 pm

cc nolen wrote:Thanks Kristi:
I only thought pictures were not allowed in the church :roll: :?: ...I wanted to see the Moore Knife and the Musso copy.
The pics you posted are of a Windless Cutlery Primitive Bowie and of course the Searles Knife in the church....many thanks and if anyone has more...please post
Chris... :D

The picture I posted the other day was of the Moore knife on display in the gift shop. The one with the photo of James Black that I needed you to identify. The Windless knife is also in the gift shop. The Searles is in the church. I don't recall seeing a Musso copy?

There is a rule against photos in the church AND the gift shop.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:33 pm

K Hale wrote: I don't recall seeing a Musso copy?


The Musso copy is in the same case as the Moore copy.

K Hale wrote:There is a rule against photos in the church AND the gift shop.

Also the Long Barrack.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:24 pm

Never Mind....I would hate to get someone in trouble :roll: ....I'll see for myself in March :? ...hopefully :D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:55 pm

cc nolen wrote:Never Mind....I would hate to get someone in trouble :roll: ....I'll see for myself in March :? ...hopefully :D
Chris...

But then again, if someone just happens to be using their cell phone inside the giftshop...
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby K Hale on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:21 pm

Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote: I don't recall seeing a Musso copy?


The Musso copy is in the same case as the Moore copy.

Rats, surely I... can find a photo of it that someone took. I'll recheck my source.

K Hale wrote:There is a rule against photos in the church AND the gift shop.

Also the Long Barrack.


My source also has a photo of the Ham knife in the Long Barrack, which I've posted here before. My source is a total scofflaw, the schmuck.
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:01 pm

K Hale wrote:
Nefarious wrote:
K Hale wrote: I don't recall seeing a Musso copy?


The Musso copy is in the same case as the Moore copy.

Rats, surely I... can find a photo of it that someone took. I'll recheck my source.

K Hale wrote:There is a rule against photos in the church AND the gift shop.

Also the Long Barrack.


My source also has a photo of the Ham knife in the Long Barrack, which I've posted here before. My source is a total scofflaw, the schmuck.


:D
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Lucas Speer on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:14 am

Have any of you guys seen this replica Bowie knife? I have always wanted one, but can't afford thousands of dollars to buy an exact replica of the Iron Mistriss Lol!!! Anyway I saw this version on ebay and Amazon and was wondering if it is cheaply made or whether it is a good knife? Thanks!


http://www.amazon.com/ALAMO-MC-AB01-Officially-Licensed-17-25-Inch/dp/B003NT2JMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345691318&sr=8-1&keywords=alamo+bowie+knife
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:30 am

I believe that Jack Edmondson showed one to Davy and both agreed that, for the price, it's a pretty good buy. Davy, John W. Smith?
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby Seguin on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:54 am

Funny, that they call it an, "Officially licensed hunting knife". Officially licensed by who? The government, or some hunting organization, maybe?
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:40 pm

I agree Hans...Joe Musso owns all the original IM's except one which just recently appeared....so who would be official in this case??? :?:

Lucas, I have seen one of the knives you speak of....for the money its a good copy.
The Iron Mistress is a very difficult knife to reproduce by hand. Bill Herndon is the only maker who (IMHO) has made an exact copy. He gets $3000 for his replica :o ...seems like alot, but he puts 100s of hours into the job and you get an (almost) exact replica...I have another Iron Mistress on order from Mark Banfield after the first of the year. He has never made one before, but after seeing Mr Herndons copies, he wants to make a stab at it....we'll see how it comes out, and the price is 1/3rd less at $1000 :o ...which is still high in most folks head................Chris
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Re: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BOWIE KNIFE?

Postby cc nolen on Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:26 pm

Here is the knife in question: I think it runs from $110 to $150 on the web.
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